Munchen High end show 2022

I m going 19 - 22 may to the show in munchen

Who s going?
What brands you wanna hear ??

 

But did you go to Aries Cerat room at this show??

Off course i did twice.
It sounded quit good.

 

I revisted the Viva room again yesterday for a lengthy amount of time .
Great with vocals but when the deep bass came in it started to
sound disconnected which if often the case with horns .
It might be the room i dont know.

 

Did it sound better with the speakers Emile? I thought you used the JA-30s and not the other for SQ reasons...that was an assumption on my part...

The JA-30 were more refined but also have more of the typical Jadis “golden” sound I assume most of us have heard at some point in time over the past decades. You either love it or hate it. Typical for these is if you want a more powerful sound you move up the line. The 4 chassis JA-500 is pretty impressive and I almost bought a set a few years ago. I personally was always more of a VTL guy for tube powersound and have owned and used the MB-750 for quite some time.

The I-70 with KT-170 tubes is a much more neutral sounding amp with a lot more kick to it, but also a bit “rougher” sounding, personally I preferred it over the JA-30 all things considered, but again my personal preference is for a more neutral sound. I definitely preferred the Aries Cerat voicing at our previous show in The Netherlands.

 

The JA-30 were more refined but also have more of the typical Jadis “golden” sound I assume most of us have heard at some point in time over the past decades. You either love it or hate it. Typical for these is if you want a more powerful sound you move up the line. The 4 chassis JA-500 is pretty impressive and I almost bought a set a few years ago. I personally was always more of a VTL guy for tube powersound and have owned and used the MB-750 for quite some time.

The I-70 with KT-170 tubes is a much more neutral sounding amp with a lot more kick to it, but also a bit “rougher” sounding, personally I preferred it over the JA-30 all things considered, but again my personal preference is for a more neutral sound. I definitely preferred the Aries Cerat voicing at our previous show in The Netherlands.

Which AC amps did you have at the Netherlands show?

 

Which AC amps did you have at the Netherlands show?

Essentia.

Look clearly 10K worth of amps was a bit out of place in a ~400K system, but it sounded great despite that.

 

@ morricab

But as a conclusive word after 3 days of show .
I think its basically ridiculous to point out a winner of some sort.
So many different designs to choose from
differcity was king .
Striving for a concensus is useless pick the candy you like and makes you feel good .
All the whats best talk is better suited for forums lol .
If the Alsyvox or dyptique designers would have been happy with a cone ls they would not have designed a ribbon transducer.
Same goes for aries cerat and many more.

 

I think its basically ridiculous to point out a winner of some sort.

You pick always a "winner" or a group of "winners" based on your subjective evaluation.
This is absolutely ok and I find it interesting what people pick as the best and for what reasons

Matt

 

The ease of the presentation in general
The sound is always controlled no excessive bass issues beautiful voice reproduction.
No housing colorations .
Loudspeakers are good if they are not annoying .
R KODA sounds natural so does Wadax.
The system made me wanna stay and listen some more.
Asthetics plays a factor too .
Audio is a luxury industry as well

You must place the last sentence in first Place...
It's becomying sooo difficult to accept that this is a luxury world, the only one domain vaguely similar is the wristwatch competition, where esclusivity and luxury have much much more importance than precision...
For almost "normal" people as me some prices are without any correlation with the actual performance; the Fair was excitying but I'm asking where this crazy world is really going...

 

I missed Dali von schweikert Avalon at the show .
And off course CAT and i missed OCTAVE electronics.

@ Analyzer if you know what to buy second hand , i reckon you can get very good sound without spending 500 K.

I think wadax r koda the gryphon set a good direction regarding natural sound albeit a bit expensive

 

You must place the last sentence in first Place...
It's becomying sooo difficult to accept that this is a luxury world, the only one domain vaguely similar is the wristwatch competition, where esclusivity and luxury have much much more importance than precision...
For almost "normal" people as me some prices are without any correlation with the actual performance; the Fair was excitying but I'm asking where this crazy world is really going...

It is nice when you come back home and listen to your own system which outperforms at least 95% of all systems at HE Munich at a fraction of the cost

Matt

 

It is nice when you come back home and listen to your own system which outperforms at least 95% of all systems at HE Munich at a fraction of the cost

Matt

That’s why I usually don't go to shows in the first place .

Seriously, at AXPONA 2017 I had a similar experience. There was one system that kept lingering in my mind: Volti Rival horn speakers driven by BorderPatrol 20W/ch push-pull triode amp from BorderPatrol DAC, with Triode Wire Lab cables. Easily best overall sound at the show for me, even though it wasn't perfect either. One of the cheaper systems there.

It's really hard to get good sound at shows. One of the reasons must be lousy AC power (everyone starves the same line, basically), but there are many others.

 

Admire audio video

 

That’s why I usually don't go to shows in the first place .

Yes, it is always nice at HE Munich, April in Paris, May in Munich
Nice to meet people, have dinner, some shopping, the audio show is only one part of the experience.......

Matt

 

You pick always a "winner" or a group of "winners" based on your subjective evaluation.
This is absolutely ok and I find it interesting what people pick as the best and for what reasons

Matt

Sure, it's fun and it's only one person's personal opinion, even if they pick a brand that they represent. Most readers see through that, but it's still fun to read about a person's opinion.

Also, thinking that the sound made at shows in show rooms/power, with set up in one day, a lot of times with new, unbroken-in equipment, and saying this is what one brand represents against other brands is just a fun exercise, but does not have much reality to it.

If you take most of the shown systems at shows and take them to homes and good rooms/power and set them up, break them in, tune them with the many ways of fine tuning a system, they all can make good sound and a lot of people like the sound of most of the systems or the equipment would not be sold and the companies would not be in business.

Saying one system is better than another at a show is very questionable, imho. YMMV. OTHER THAN it might be better at that particular show, but not necessarily if set up properly in a proper environment and maybe with other components to optimize a particular component or speaker.

 

From Kroma Atelier I want to thank you all of you were in our stand!
It were 3 amazing days and most of them fully packed @ Hifideluxe!

We presented two systems there.
One with the new Turandot speaker .
- Gryphon Commander and Apex
- Wadax Reference Dac and Reference Server
- RMD TP-2 Ref Tape Preamp
- cables Crystal Cables DaVinci
- Rack Artesania
Second with the new Mimi Xtreme and Thais Xtreme
-Turntable TechDas AirForce 5 premium
-Phono RMD Ph-2 Ref Phono preamp
-Viola Sonata and Cadence
- cables mix from Crystal and Siltech
- Rack Artesania

Javier Guadalajara also give an interesting lecture about Wadax products and goals.
We were really happy with the sound in both systems and the feedback was great. Hope to see you soon!
All the best

 

Saying one system is better than another at a show is very questionable, imho. YMMV. OTHER THAN it might be better at that particular show, but not necessarily if set up properly in a proper environment and maybe with other components to optimize a particular component or speaker.

I get your point, otoh as the Atrium rooms are nearly identical the manufacturers have nearly the same conditions to present their devices in the best possible way. Certainly the set-up and fine-tuning is as or even more important as the devices itself. So the visitors get the combined impression of the product and the tuned set-up.

Matt

 

I have heard the admire horns on the first day at MOC but since they were on the groundfloor and i had a lot more to cover in 2 days i stayed only for 1 song and that was vocals and sounded very nice .
Together with the VIVA in my view they represented the best the unique character horns have to offer .
I d have liked to hear classical music more both on the Admire and Viva horns .
What happened with the Vivas however was , that with certain music the bass was way to much and the balance was gone and it became annoying .
Id love to hear the admire horns on another occasion for a bit longer

@ Rhapsody i m not a magician
Andromedas philosophy is to buy amplifiers which sound good from the get go with cords supplied by the manufacturer
If i have to fool around with powercords / cables to make them sound good , they are out of the door already

 

That’s why I usually don't go to shows in the first place .

Seriously, at AXPONA 2017 I had a similar experience. There was one system that kept lingering in my mind: Volti Rival horn speakers driven by BorderPatrol 20W/ch push-pull triode amp from BorderPatrol DAC, with Triode Wire Lab cables. Easily best overall sound at the show for me, even though it wasn't perfect either. One of the cheaper systems there.

It's really hard to get good sound at shows. One of the reasons must be lousy AC power (everyone starves the same line, basically), but there are many others.

Yes a timely reminder of the limitations and values of shows, but still a good starting point to get to know new kit and other manufacturers equipment that may not be readily accessible where you live.
Seeing and hearing things in the flesh and being able to talk to the manufacturers is invariably helpful.
At Munich some years ago exhibitors were barred from leaving their equipment on overnight as a result of a fire. I don't know whether this is true of other shows like Axpona, but equipment will not sound its best if it is not properly warmed up.

 

BTW, can someone share some listening impressions about Ideon Audio at Hifideluxe?
What are their plans with the new line of products (streamer, reclocker, DAC) between the Master and Absolute series which are supposed to be released at the end of 2022?
Thank you

Matt

 

I thought certain rooms at hifi deluxe and up in the atrium at the MOC in munchen were certainly not bad sounding.
Also the atmosphere was friendly open enthusiastic .
I would definetively consider demonstrating there.
A lot of exposure .
When my 2 smaller floorstander designs are finished (preferably with Wadax and The gryphon Apex ,lol)
But after reading some of the comments on the Kharmas in munchen , i doubt mine have will have a lot of admirers though