Munich show 2023 Hifideluxe and MOC .

[bonzo75]

In my last review I talked about an "... auditory template accumulated across years of exposure to live performances."

I guess you did a search for the word template by poster bonzo75 to get that idea. My first mention dates back to 2018.

“So, sonically, as we have all discussed, the system should represent our mental template of the live experiences we have had. “

More recent exact phrase auditory template in the thread that shall not be named

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/natural-sound.32867/post-722935

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/natural-sound.32867/post-809066

 

[Thieliste]

My favorite room at the MOC this year definitely the Odeon room.
Favorite one at Hifi Deluxe the Bayz Audio room.
Now I need to find a way to be able to afford Odeon Carnegie lol

 

[Argonaut]

Not a problem for Taiko, Pilium or Alsyvox regarding your analysis of our room.

Well … Obviously it does Bob , given the somewhat defensive content of your subsequent post ! I do really feel that the very best modus operandi , post a Munich show like this , is for for Manufacturers and Associated Dealers to refrain entirely from commenting upon attendees personal considerations and predilections , other than to answer a direct enquiry or to contradict an incorrect technical reference .

 

[PeterA]

More recent exact phrase auditory template in the thread that shall not be named

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/natural-sound.32867/post-722935

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/natural-sound.32867/post-809066

The thread that shall not be named. Now that is funny.

 

[Rhapsody]

Well … Obviously it does given the content of your subsequent post ! I do really feel that the very best modus operandi , post a Munich show like this , is for for Manufacturers and Associated Dealers to refrain entirely from commenting upon attendees personal predilections , other than to answer a direct enquiry or to contradict an incorrect technical reference .

The poster stated his opinion of our room, I stated my first hand opinion of my experience in the room.

Apologies for not refraining from posting.

 

[Argonaut]

The poster stated his opinion of our room, I stated my first hand opinion of my experience in the room.

Apologies for not refraining from posting.

See … You are doing it again , Why did I bother

 

[Rhapsody]

See … You are doing it again , Why did I bother

Yes, why did you bother?

 

[Argonaut]

Yes, why did you bother?

Oh … No reason , other than you came across all very Butt Hurt and Unnecessarily Defensive about your wares based upon anothers opinion … Of course , there are $$$ at stake , ergo carry on regardless !

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Yes, why did you bother?

i think the fact the said impressions that Bob commented on are from a hifi dealer with admitted biases, does change the decorum question. for me anyway. when dealers get into criticism's of the competition, then other dealers ought to be able to comment. not that it's good to do it, only it's fair game.

non industry posters opinions.....i agree with you.

 

[Rocoa]

My favorite room at the MOC this year definitely the Odeon room.

One of the best sounds (no Hi Fi) to me too!!

 

[Rhapsody]

Oh … No reason , other than you came across all very Butt Hurt and Unnecessarily Defensive about your wares based upon anothers opinion … Of course , there are $$$ at stake , do carry on regardless

i think the fact the said impressions that Bob commented on are from a hifi dealer with admitted biases, does change the decorum question. for me anyway.

That's it Mike. If it was just a show-goer that didn't like the room, I would not have responded. A lot of people would not like the room, never an issue with that. It seemed there was more to his comments and he's a dealer/competitor, not a show goer, about our room and defensive or not, I felt for readers to hear an alternate opinion.

Edit- When another dealer is going to make comments about anything I am associated with I am definitely going to give a counter view if I choose to do so.

 

[Rhapsody]

One of the best sounds (no Hi Fi) to me too!

One of the best sounds (no Hi Fi) to me too!!

I agree and as I said previously I couldn't resist and bought the Carneige and the Rigelloto. I was pleasantly surprised that Odeon did not have US representation. They do now.

 

[speshal]

I watched his vid ,what he is describing is basically the only open floor plan hall on the 2 upper floors where multiple brands are mixed together and some with sound and some only on static display .

The ground floor in munich is basically everything mixed together.
The 2 Atrium floors are all seperate rooms with one amp / one Ls brand .

He is giving you the wrong impression

Lol... How can I give the wrong impression when I literally filmed quasi streaming the entire show from my perspective. You don't have to take my word for it, just watch and see for yourself.

You may not have much experience with shows or the industry, but this is far more business oriented and like CES of the past... Tons of press only events (I even filmed one with Wilson Benesch) and tons of meetings with dealers and distributors that you don't see a fraction of at normal shows in the USA.

Technics room was literally booked up the entire time with prearranged meetings... You see any reports from that room from regular Audiophiles?

On top of that, the rooms had mostly terrible acoustics which is why it's not the show to draw definitive conclusions on SQ....unless you go when the room is empty... multiple times.... and choose songs played at optimal volume.

It's normal to see show reports use audiophile jargon ad nauseum pretending that what they are hearing after one song is 100% attributable to the gear, but trust those at your own risk.

The noise floor in the room and bleed through from other rooms is evident... Again proof of throughout all my videos of which I probably uploaded the most so you can judge for yourself... Don't take my word for it.

Obviously, it's fair to give kudos when you hear something good...and props to rooms that navigate the challenges better than others, but it's important to temper any definitive conclusions unless it's a consistent theme you've seen in gear at other shows under better conditions.

The Dagostino and Wilson room I filmed was absolutely worthless for doing any judgments about the gear. It won't stop people from doing that and pretending they can, but I focused on what was intriguing and whatever value possible in visiting that room. Other rooms were better for evaluating SQ, but I doubt you'll find many mfgs that will say they got near 100% potential of performance and you should draw a conclusion about their gear based on the sound in their rooms.

It wasn't the show for that... Pure and simple... If you disagree, so be it.

 

[Phon@ix]

Some stuff I liked besides the usual suspects…

Zeiler Audio - Zurich CH
Schetl - Budapest HU

Wiener Lautsprecher Manufaktur AUT - Ella (the small one) is a very nice sounding speaker

Lansche Audio D - big bang imo
Qualiton - Nyíregyháza HU

IO Design - Italy
Davis Acoustics - Troyes F

Soundspace Systems - Berlin D

Boenicke - Basel CH

 

[andromedaaudio]

[please forgive my poor English]

The Wilson & D'Agostino you were talking upwards: is it in this room (white and blue Wilson speakers) that they demo'ed the set?
Or is this room only a static display, and the demos occured elsewhere?

This video is just frightening to me: it is a terrible mess, full of noise and static displays. I know the two first days are business days, but still...

The author (Audiophile Junkie) mentions:
- a lot of distributor-only events
- a lot of press-only events
- a lot of static displays
Was he in the "wrong room"? Or is it indeed the right Wilson & D'Agostino listening room?

I also may have picked the worst possible video to evaluate the question should I come to Munich 2024?

The last 2 days are for consumers .
Munchen is not a Dealer distributor show only .
You can go in any room you want , as long as you want .
The only door that was closed in the morning at 10:00 was the FONO acustica room , may be because they overslept , later they were open .
The only demonstator that gave you a show " time " card was Burmester .
They had only so many places so you had to register , and they gave a nice demonstration

Demonstrators were very friendly in general , they fulfilled several music requests .

I reckon if there is one show you wanna be its Munchen ( both hifideluxe and MOC) all the big names are there with their top products

 

[andromedaaudio]

Tons of press only events (I even filmed one with Wilson Benesch) and tons of meetings with dealers and distributors that you don't see a fraction of at normal shows in the USA.

You have seen more then me then .
The meetings with dealers/ distributors and manufacturers were either done in special business rooms ( without gear ) or done discretely , certainly not annoying in any way;

The only " Press event " i saw was M fremer recording in the CH / wilson room .
I also saw Jay making a vid in the lobby .
And for the rest some " influencers " making vids but nothing annoying like i said

 

[bonzo75]

i think the fact the said impressions that Bob commented on are from a hifi dealer with admitted biases, does change the decorum question. for me anyway. when dealers get into criticism's of the competition, then other dealers ought to be able to comment. not that it's good to do it, only it's fair game.

non industry posters opinions.....i agree with you.

completely agree

 

[Audio_Karma]

Best Sound at Munich 2023 ?...

 

[microstrip]

Nothing at all. They go on to live another day. BTW, it is not just the horns. It is the whole system. The right horns are what allow you to fully experience a great SET amp like the ML2.

Do you know if Vladimir Lamm ever owned horn speakers for his own regular listening?

 

[matthias]

The only demonstator that gave you a show " time " card was Burmester .

T&A did too, also FM acoustics and some others like Klipsch did demos behind closed doors at certain times.
This should be a No Go at HE Munich. The visitors should come and go when they want. The manufacturers should play music all the time and not at certain times. At these closed doors demos the manufacturer often talkes about some obscure technical details and declares why the system plays so good instead of playing music. It is simply BS to make reservations for demos when it is nearly impossible to listen properly to all the rooms in the atriums in two days.

Matt