So you have the Ground Lift On for the XLR output. I think that means you are using it as an unbalanced cable. This probably won’t work with the Ref Amp, but worth a try of course.
Nagra REFERENCE Preamp
- Thread starter Zeotrope
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So you have the Ground Lift On for the XLR output. I think that means you are using it as an unbalanced cable. This probably won’t work with the Ref Amp, but worth a try of course.
I just flipped the switch..so ground now on both channels. I think I prefer how it sounds...will do some more listening both ways. No hum, in either config, not even sure why I had that switch that way...
That’s great! I would suspect it will sound better grounded, since it’s a balanced output.
Isn't the HD preamplfier output transformer used for volume control? When a transformer is used for output, the output becomes intrinsically balanced.
Considering that ground implementation in XLR equipment and cables is variable, a multimeter can be very useful to check for possible ground paths.
Hi, So I have gone back and forth with ground lifted and not. I prefer ground lifted. Less something allowing a little more purity-its super close however. My Nagra dealer says it's still a balanced connection and using the chassis grounds via the cabling shields.
Hi, that’s interesting as the outside shields being connected caused major noise in my case (REF Pre to REF Amps). So you XLR cables have conductive connectors/shells, and they are wired together?
Yes, the HD/REF Pre-Amp output is balanced. The Inputs are unbalanced, but can be made balanced.
I have never dealt with Nagra but from everything I have read they are a solid company with respect to customer service. I would think they would provide specs and options for XLR cabling between the amp and preamp to prevent the issues you are having. Or maybe they have and you don’t like their choices.
So if you know anything about grounding, it’s not a “one size fits all” approach. It’s system dependent and there are no real adhered to standards.
I never said I ‘didn’t like Nagra’s choices’. Not sure where you got that from.
It also is clear that what works for the HD pre and amps may not work for the REF. Eg, Nagra has removed the ground lift from the Pre output, thus forcing users to use the ground. That was my point. Not sure what yours was?
Not sure if it is the case, but some types of ground lifts are not allowed any more by some country electrical codes in consumer equipment.
I said “or maybe you didn’t like their choices.” I never said you said that.
I realize grounding is system dependent especially if you use grounding devices.
It was really a simple question. Not sure why you are taking it so personally. I had no “point” other than to learn more about it. You didn’t mention their recommendations so I didn’t know if they had provided any.
Jeez. Not sure where the hostility is coming rrom.
I’m not an expert by any means, but I believe that signal ground is different than chassis ground. A balanced signal is balanced via pin 1. That’s signal ground.
Chassis ground can be connected to pin 1, and also to AC ground. I believe that this varies by manufacturer - some components connect chassis to pin 1 and others do not. If the HD Pre and Power amps are connecting chassis to signal, then yes, it would be grounded even with ground lift off (unless chassis ground is also lifted from pin 1 with lift on).
For the REF amps, I highly doubt the chassis is connected to pin 1. I don’t get any noise when running a balanced cable with the signal ground connected via pin 1. Connecting the chassis did produce noise.
It’s been awhile since I’ve seen updates on the ref pre. Now that some of you have been listening for awhile how are you feeling? Mine should arrive in a few weeks. I went from tube to hd to ref.
I am digging my Ref DAC. Just loving every moment I listen to it. both via my transport and the Nagra Streamer....16/44 off the transport sound very very good. Ditto the streamer. It plays up to 4xdsd and 32/352 DXD files. I've found a few 32/352 recordings that are outstanding. I have one Bill Evans in dsd, 2xdsd, 4xdsd. Fun to hear the better resolutions! Just a bit better focus and finer delineations of notes as you go up to 4xdsd.
I’m loving the Ref Pre and Amps. Absolutely no comparison to the DarTZeel 18NS and 108 (and I thought those sounded great).
I can’t compare to the HD line as I went from Kondo M77/Souga to the Zeel, and now to the Ref.
Can you explain upgrade process. When you have an HD version, do you need to sell it and than buy the ref version. Or you send it back to Nagra to transform it to ref version ? I saw that for the preamp, it was possible to upgrade in two phases, a version with one PSU like the HD and than to two PSU.
Already many thanks for your experience shared.
Already many thanks for your experience shared.
You can do either. The upgrade process includes round trip shipping to Nagra. You don’t get the ref logo but get the ref boards & internals. My Nagra dealer has offered a trade in and get new
I just went thru the process. You can send your HDs back to Switzerland via your dealer for an upgrade. Everything is as per the new spec minus the Ref logo on the front of the units. On the DAC and Pre there is nothing but there is a plaque in the back of the AMP stating the Reference upgrade. Boxes state the Reference upgrade. For the PSU, you are correct you can either do one or 2. The PSU also are upgraded with more capacitor. One note the chassis of the REF amp has slightly more rounded corner similar to the DAC/PRE but they are not part of the upgrade. You need a new machine. The turnaround time was about 6 weeks for me.
There’s an open question as to whether the Ground Lift switch is retained and is functional on the upgraded Ref Pre. I think @jfrech said his dealer’s unit has it.
My Ref Pre, which was built as a Ref and not upgraded does not have the ground lift switch. Nagra does not want the ground lifted if you use the Ref Amps.
My Ref Pre, which was built as a Ref and not upgraded does not have the ground lift switch. Nagra does not want the ground lifted if you use the Ref Amps.
I just checked on mine (upgraded REF from HD) and the switch is still present and active.
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