You should start by measuring your own TT Francisco !
When are the results ready good idea ??
2 measurements of both TTs will reveal more then the next 100 pages of discussion
Natural Sound
- Thread starter PeterA
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When are the results ready good idea ??
2 measurements of both TTs will reveal more then the next 100 pages of discussion
No. The SL1200G has plenty of torque to manage my platter pad, even though the pad weighs 5 pounds.
Not as pitch!! You might get a tiny shimmer in the sound stage as the tonearm oscillates over the groove as the machine speed varies. But when the speed is that close I dubious of even that.
I don't worry about the measurements of DD turntables, just the way they often sound
Micro has 2 belt drive turntables and should start his data collection in his own listening room, you can keep on criticizing as a "innocent " bystander.Let's hope Ron does not catch that one, WBF is the Disney version of a audio forum, family friendly and wholesome !
Micro has 2 belt drive turntables and should start his data collection in his own listening room, you can keep on criticizing as a "innocent " bystander.
Your information services are poor and then you spread fake news ... You should get help from from CIA ...
My old external belt turntables are now sold, a new turntable project will start soon and I am getting proper information and expert advice, not gossip. Air bearing, belt and DD are being considered.
Again, focus on the best each technology can offer, do not make your mind looking in the neighbour waste bin.
We are looking forward to the ultimate TT build from a man that prefers DCS digital to analog.
We are looking forward to the ultimate TT build from a man that prefers DCS digital to analog.
Again fake news!
You really need help to get proper information ... 
Well, good luck with your upcoming turntable. I now understand why you are gathering data. I also seem to remember that you had been planning to build a new listening room in the future. I look forward to reading about your projects as they develop if and when you share more information.
And pictures please, lots of pictures !
And videos, please, lots of videos!
Fransisco, I interpret this as a request for a five minute video of the middle of an LP playing while recording the output reading of the built in RoadRunner tachometer. To that end, I have made just such a video for you to investigate. I chose one of my favorite cello recordings, Frans Helmerson playing Crumb's Sonata for Solo Cello, (BIS LP-65 STEREO for those interested in the music). The piece is in the middle of the LP. After starting from the beginning but not recording Hindemith's Sonata for Solo Cello, everything was nicely warmed up and I started to record.
You can clearly see the stylus in the middle of the LP and the tachometer reading 33.333RPM. For five straight minutes, the tachometer reading fluctuates very slightly between 33.333 and 33.334. The camera never leaves the tachometer for the five minutes. I then move the camera to the listening seat for a while as the piece continues, return to the tachometer frozen at 33.333, go to the stylus for a while, return to the tachometer still reading 33.333 and then the piece finishes. For about ten full minutes, the tachometer never leaves 33.333 to 33.334. The speed fluctuation may be testing the limits of the five decimal places on the display. Perhaps it should go to 33.3335 where it would likely remain. I also flick the thread (at 5:20) to give you some indication of the tension. Remember, this motor is running without correction. There is no hunting and correcting of the speed. It is constant and maintained by the steadiness of the motor, the high mass platter, and the low bearing friction.
This video should give you the data you are looking for. Please let me know what you conclude from this data set about my turntable speed performance, if anything.
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Amazing speed stability !
Next up Francisco is going to ask for more dynamic music to judge the needle-drag on volatile passages. Stairway to heaven please.
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Thanks for the effort Peter. As I stated several times the only relevant information is data without thread - and preferably with the same recording. Apologies for not being more direct. My interest is knowing if stylus drag at the end of the recording, where linear velocity is much lower, is also lower. If possible start the recording at the last five minutes of the LP face - it will maximize the possible difference.
Surely we can't see it with the motor engaged, as it compensates for stylus drag.
No, you were not clear. Anyway, this video was worth making to demonstrate the speed accuracy and consistency of my American Sound AS2000 for anyone interested in the topic. I am going to take a break for a while and go skiing. Perhaps you can take your camera to a friend's house and make the recording you are looking for. I may do the experiment you are suggesting at some later time.
Amazing speed stability !
Do you expect your turntable to be very different?
The master oscillator of the signal generator of the sinusoidal generator is probably a quartz oscillator - the result shown by Peter shows that there is no belt slippage, a good sign.
Anyway people should remember that the great analog LPs were sourced from tape machines, that had not such "high-end" speed requirements - they focused on the important parameters, such as wow and flutter and scrape flutter. It is why my reference for analog stereo sound is my own Studer A80 playing master tapes recorded in a duplicating system using similar machines.
Many of the studio tape machines (not the Studer´s ) used synchronous motors on the capstan. In such motors speed is proportional to mains frequency - see https://www.mainsfrequency.com/. And yet the recordings were fabulous!
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Most turntables will not match the performance of Peters AS 2000 when it comes to speed stability, try it out with your Forsell, or did you sell that too ? I agree that speed can fluctuate and still produce great sound, the micro variations of motor pulses and speed hunting on feedback systems have a larger effect on sound quality. The Papst motor in your A80 Studer is a 24 pole motor they sound very good. In comparison the AS 2000 motor has "only" 12 poles, but is synchronous and locks to the main frequency with great stability.
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We have members who visit many systems with turntables. And some take videos. How cool would it be to take along a Sutherland timeline strobe and record the results on other belt drive turntables like the TechDAS, Brinkmann, Nagra or VYGER?
What I don’t quite understand is that you are doing this research to presumably guide you when choosing your new turntable. Don’t you think the results of the test you propose are going to vary depending on the design of the turntable? With the motor detached, you are looking at the bearing friction and platter mass, but also the proportions of the platter will likely matter. And some turntables might even even stop spinning before the five minute test is over. I would think the effect of stylist drag will vary, depending on the design of the turntable.
Why don’t you do the test yourself on the turntables you’re considering buying. My turntable is no longer available and so information you glean from that won’t really be relevant.
American Sound, "The Absolute Nothing"
Thanks, but I don't claim that I'm knowledgeable, I'm learning. A smartphone app can provide an idea of wow & flutter, even if it’s not entirely accurate. AM remains the best wow & flutter measuring tool available despite its inherent limitations. I believe we covered the reasons for this in...
www.whatsbestforum.com
But will the TT still play though Wilson and big amps with digital recordings? Or are you moving to horns too after your favourite reviewer did
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