Natural Sound

[Lagonda]

American Sound, "The Absolute Nothing"

Thanks, but I don't claim that I'm knowledgeable, I'm learning. A smartphone app can provide an idea of wow & flutter, even if it’s not entirely accurate. AM remains the best wow & flutter measuring tool available despite its inherent limitations. I believe we covered the reasons for this in...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Yes, Peters is on decimal point better, this turntable varies from 33,32 - 33,34, Peters does 33,33 rocks solid with no deviation at all. It deviates from 33,332 - 33,334 on rare occasions but is mostly stable at 33.333. The Roadrunner speed measurement tool is probably also more reliable, as it is hardwired/installed, not just placed on the platter. You should run the test on your VYGER, i would be very interested in the result.

 

[bonzo75]

We have members who visit many systems with turntables. And some take videos. How cool would it be to take along a Sutherland timeline strobe and record the results on other belt drive turntables like the TechDAS, Brinkmann, Nagra or VYGER?

Vienna posted tons of measurements during his auditions on the public tool where W&F can be seen. He bought the Brinkmann on measurements

 

[Lagonda]

Vienna posted tons of measurements during his auditions on they public tool where W&F can be seen. He bought the Brinkmann on measurements

I don't think Vienna auditioned any big boy, state of the art TT besides Brinkmann, he went from the badly built VPI right to it.

 

[Argonaut]

Yes, Peters is on decimal point better, this turntable varies from 33,32 - 33,34, Peters does 33,33 rocks solid with no deviation at all. It deviates from 33,332 - 33,334 on rare occasions but is mostly stable at 33.333. The Roadrunner speed measurement tool is probably also more reliable, as it is hardwired/installed, not just placed on the platter.

Ehhh ! Where are you getting this information from ? This is all the data supplied by the owner of this TD 124.

“ Stock TD-124. Fully restored by the best. Me
300ppm from 33.3333333 under dynamic load. Idlers ftw “

 

[Lagonda]

Ehhh ! Where are you getting this information from ? This is all the data supplied by the owner of this TD 124.

“ Stock TD-124. Fully restored by the best. Me
300ppm from 33.3333333 under dynamic load. Idlers ftw “

Absolutely nonsense, look at the data on the picture you linked to.

 

[bonzo75]

I don't think Vienna auditioned any big boy, state of the art TT besides Brinkmann, he went from the badly built VPI right to it.

No he auditioned many. He also had the continuum in his home for 2 weeks. The BB was chosen after trying many. SME and Sikora were also there, don’t remember all

 

[Argonaut]

Absolutely nonsense, look at the data on the picture you linked to.

‘LMAO …. And you believe that’s audible ? … How much did he pay for that infinitesimal delta over a 2K max 60 ish year old Idler ?

 

[Lagonda]

‘LMAO …. And you believe that’s audible ? … How much did he pay for that infinitesimal delta over a 2K max 60 ish year old Idler ?

I do not think it is audible but we are comparing measurements here, and when it comes to measurements Peters TT is very, very good. I am sure a lot of DD turtables vil do much better than that old idler too, but will they sound as good ? I dont think i can hear a deviation from 33,3 -33,5 if it happens gradually, but i can hear a clear difference depending on what type motor is running, higher torque motors with many poles sound clearly better on my turntable, even if there is a slight drift in absolute speed.

 

[Argonaut]

I am sure a lot of DD turtables vil do much better than that old idler too

Very likely , There again a vintage Yamaha GT 2000 DD would I suspect match the speed stability of an AS 1000 , or for something brand new with dealer warranty a Technics SP 10R would do the same .

 

[Bruno Rivademar]

I don't see where the nonsense about my comment and measurement is. Unless my math is wrong a 0.03% deviation is 300ppm.

 

[Lagonda]

I don't see where the nonsense about my comment and measurement is. Unless my math is wrong a 0.03% deviation is 300ppm.

It was your 33.3333333 number that had confused the poster, misunderstanding that your turntables speed stability was a match for the AS 2000, it is not. But surely impressive numbers for a idler.

 

[Argonaut]

It was your 33.3333333 number that had confused the poster, misunderstanding that your turntables speed stability was a match for the AS 2000, it is not. But surely impressive numbers for an idler.

Where did I state such a thing ? … My point being to illustrate that a well sorted 60+ year old idler could get close enough for it not to matter in audible terms .

 

[bonzo75]

The TD 124 has a belt too.

It is pointless to compare DDs to belts, they will have good measurements with usually a start stop sound due to the clogging.

 

[bonzo75]

I am getting proper information and expert advice, not gossip.

How are you confirming who is the expert to advise you? By your own judgement of “expert”?

For example Peter and Tima consider David as expert.

Lagonda might be considering Marc.

Does your expert have a system or videos we can all learn from

 

[Lagonda]

The TD 124 has a belt too.

It is pointless to compare DDs to belts, they will have good measurements with usually a start stop sound due to the clogging.

And the latest model of the TD 124 is DD And the latest model of the Yamaha the GT 5000 is belt drive just to confuse us all.

 

[Bruno Rivademar]

So what does the 33.332-33.334 number in the AS TT mean? How is that measured? Is that an average speed during a certain amount of time or is that the actual minimum-maximum speed readout? (30ppm) I'm genuinely interesed in the roadrunner device but I don't understand how it works. According to what I just read it only shows a speed average with a very cool 3 decimal resolution. Maybe i'm missing something.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Absolutely nonsense, look at the data on the picture you linked to. View attachment 143364

Respect, the new TD 124 with direct drive can't even do that. I guess if Thorens people see that they'll definitely give him a job

 

[Bruno Rivademar]

Take a look at that video. The roadrunner shows a number every 1,5 to 2 seconds. Acording to what we are seeing that turntable is as good as the AS turntable in terms of speed variation. It varies pretty much 1 decimal point once it's settled.

 

[Bruno Rivademar]

That number every 1-2 seconds is the speed average measured over a period of time. Not the actual minimum-maximum speed.

 

[Lagonda]

Take a look at that video. The roadrunner shows a number every 1,5 to 2 seconds. Acording to what we are seeing that turntable is as good as the AS turntable in terms of speed variation. It varies pretty much 1 decimal point once it's settled.

There is much more fluctuation when running without speed variation feedback. Even when this turntable is with adjustment, Peters turntable is more stable. I have had that exact controller on a previous low torque motor, with adjustment it gets a little hazy in the treble it sounds better with more drift and no feedback. The AS 2000 is running without feedback, just the solid sine wave created by the controller, a special model created for the power requirements of this turntable.