Negative show report posts... enough is enough.

[Rodney Gold]

If you do not trust any review , it makes no difference whether its positive or negative
If , like a LOT of people , you buy on reviews or rely on them to narrow the field ..then a negative review of any component is irrelevant anyway as you will be looking at the 5 star stuff... so why waste publication space with bad stuff?

The only real way you can evaluate any component is to get it into your listening room/environment and spend a week or 2 with it.

 

[Joe Whip]

If you do not trust any review , it makes no difference whether its positive or negative
If , like a LOT of people , you buy on reviews or rely on them to narrow the field ..then a negative review of any component is irrelevant anyway as you will be looking at the 5 star stuff... so why waste publication space with bad stuff?

The only real way you can evaluate any component is to get it into your listening room/environment and spend a week or 2 with it.

How about so people don't buy the bad stuff? I guess by your logic, we shouldn't publish stories about recalled food products. Geez....

 

[Joe Whip]

My name is in my signature here. On others I only use a moniker. Guess I'm a P/T Coward.

If you are not an "expert" and post a negative comment about a room or a component, you are a coward! Or worse, chaff. Maybe even flotsam and jetsam. I kinda prefer being the latter.

 

[Rodney Gold]

Thats a fatuous argument, you dont die from bad hifi..

 

[amirm]

I thought we had moved from name calling guys. Let's not go back to it. We are having good substantive discussion about the topic, rather than the person. We very much appreciate everyone's efforts to get us here considering where we started. Let's not undo this.

 

[Audio Guy]

It's to everybody's benefit for reviewers to pre-screen gear. And I'd say the same goes for shows. If you don;t like what you hear when you walk through the door, you can choose to turn around and leave. But IMO if you commit to a listening session and plan to write about it, then you should convey what you experience—even if it is negative.

 

[harleyguy]

I thought we had moved from name calling guys. Let's not go back to it. We are having good substantive discussion about the topic, rather than the person. We very much appreciate everyone's efforts to get us here considering where we started. Let's not undo this.

Thank you this is getting old lets move on

 

[Audio Guy]

I've written about this quite a bit, but it's worth mentioning yet again that the First Amendment of the US Constitution only applies between speech between individuals and government, and not between individuals or between individuals and corporations. There's a whole other set of laws around slander and libel that cover that stuff. Believe me, those are very well-worn paths -- even in writing about high-end audio -- and it's something worth being aware of, even if you're just a "little guy" ... or a forum contributor.

Fact is, getting sued is no fun. It's also expensive; you might win, eventually, but even if you do eventually come out victorious and win back your legal fees, you still have to pay upfront in order to play -- and while you're fighting your frivolous suit, you may actually be unable to continue to work ("Honey, what does 'injunction' mean?") ! Given that the average audio reviewer is paid peanuts to write (usually less than a couple of hundred bucks per review each of which may take several weeks -- or more -- to pull together), there doesn't really seem any upside in being negative -- "the betterment of humanity" notwithstanding, which, now that I think about it, rarely chips in for legal fees. Anyway, if you're ever sitting alone, flipping around online while sipping your mochachino and marveling/railing at the sorry state of reviewership, now you know why that is. Ta da!

Yes, but sometimes a supreme court case comes along that reaffirms the general right be satirycal and critical. Two great examples are "Hustler Magazine vs. Falwell" i.e. The People vs. Larry Flynt, and "Bose Corp. v. Consumers Union of United States, Inc."

I do agree though, a lot of people are so threatened by a lawyer's letter, it may as well be a threat of force. But sending a letter stating an intent to sue and going through with a lawsuit that has little chance of succeeding are two different things. With audio there is specific precedent allowing for such criticism, thanks to the fact Consumer's Union won its case versus Bose.

 

[Al M.]

Back to the thread intent...sort of...

A few years ago I attended a show, not as an exhibitor, but as an enthusiast. One room that I particularly remember was inhabited by the manufacturer, his wife, and his kids. I don't even remember his product, but I remember the feel of the room as if it were yesterday. There was a sense anxiousness about it, a presence of desperation, and maybe on the part of the wife, a sense of impending doom. All this was tempered by the guy's enthusiasm for the product and an unconscious projection of hope. No one besides my friend and I was in the room, and I got the feeling that it had been pretty much empty for the entire show. To make matters worse, it sounded bad, not your typical bad, but it met the criteria for a room where there was something bad for everyone. No one I know could have possibly fixed it. I don't think I have heard a worse room at a show anywhere.

I am soft-sell where my product is concerned, but that guy redefined hard sell to a level that rivaled anyone who ever graced NYC's gem district. I got the sense that he didn't just want to sell something, he absolutely had to sell something. I could tell that everything was riding on his product and that show. But, the ship had already sunk. Apparently, his dream had taken the ultimate financial toll and all that was left was for him to take in that last gulp of air. I wanted to give the guy a hug, and tell him that everything would be alright, but I knew better. We thanked him as courteously as we could muster and left the room instead.

Later, I scoured the magazines for comments about that room, but found none. Fortunately, any reviewer or attendee who had been there had the common decency to let it pass without comment. I was relieved, but probably nowhere near as much as that guy and his family. They were allowed to slip into oblivion quietly.

That room was an extreme example, but the moral is that everyone who shows has an investment. But more, they have a dream. Most of us makers measure our investments, and have thick enough skins to take criticism. We can either defend what we do, or write off the guy criticizing as an idiot. There is a difference in criticism, however. Criticisms can be illustrative, or constructive, but some can be trivial and mean-spirited. Think before you make unfair comparisons, or write just for something to do.

Perhaps. But when for example a Magico room sounds really bad, like according to multiple reports apparently at AXPONA 2015 both rooms of that manufacturer did, it should be called out. Magico is not a small fish, but a (mega-)multi-million dollar company, and if they or their dealers deliver lousy sound then there is no excuse not to report it. It doesn't touch anyone's heart, and nobody needs to feel bad for them, since their fate doesn't hang on this one instance as it apparently did for that small manufacturer you mentioned.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

In the above case, I wouldn't put this down to a reviewer being honest about a product. I would think it a poor choice of reviewer by the editor.

Part of the editor's role in all this is to act as matchmaker, ensuring the right product goes to the appropriate reviewer. This doesn't just mean 'never give a cartridge review to someone who signs their name in binary': it means trying to find someone who will give the product a fair assessment. Sometimes, that doesn't work out as expected, and it's the job of both editor and reviewer to determine whether this is down to it being a bad product, or a bad fit for the reviewer.

Well said.

 

[garylkoh]

Can we have a show of hands - how many here have had to set up a demo in a strange hotel room you have never been in or seen (or conference room if it's a commercial venue) within a day to demo the next day to a bunch of critical audiophiles and reviewers? And have had to sit through the entire day pandering to critical audiophiles and reviewers?

It is hard work. And you have to contend with varying electrical supply because there are another 300 rooms sharing the same power.

How many reviewers have done the same? Again, lets' have a show of hands.

I think you will have a much higher appreciation of critical reports and excuses from exhibitors when you've done it.

IF any of you would like to experience this, PM me and I'll invite you to the set-up crew for the next show. So far, I've never had anyone inflict this upon themselves more than once (and I do treat them well!!).

 

[DaveC]

Can we have a show of hands - how many here have had to set up a demo in a strange hotel room you have never been in or seen (or conference room if it's a commercial venue) within a day to demo the next day to a bunch of critical audiophiles and reviewers? And have had to sit through the entire day pandering to critical audiophiles and reviewers?

It is hard work. And you have to contend with varying electrical supply because there are another 300 rooms sharing the same power.

How many reviewers have done the same? Again, lets' have a show of hands.

I think you will have a much higher appreciation of critical reports and excuses from exhibitors when you've done it.

IF any of you would like to experience this, PM me and I'll invite you to the set-up crew for the next show. So far, I've never had anyone inflict this upon themselves more than once (and I do treat them well!!).

It's not like you show up and get a random room, you know the dimensions of the room well in advance.

Being prepared for power is the same as being prepared with acoustic treatments. If you consider neither and don't bring power conditioning and room treatments there is a good chance your sound will not be optimum.

 

[amirm]

IF any of you would like to experience this, PM me and I'll invite you to the set-up crew for the next show. So far, I've never had anyone inflict this upon themselves more than once (and I do treat them well!!).

I was always happy to wave goodbye to the setup/tear down crews as I left on the last day at a show were exhibiting so you can count me out.

Manning the show is super hard forgetting about opinionated audiophiles and reviewers. I can't imagine sitting there day after day doing it although being able to sit is a major advantage over tech exhibits where you are on your feet all day long. And have to keep repeating your talking points over and over again all day.

 

[garylkoh]

No amount of power conditioning will help if you get 120V before everybody arrives for set-up, and on show day power sags to 99V in the middle of the day when everybody's air conditioning kicks on (AND it is the most crowded with bodies absorbing bass).

 

[TheMadMilkman]

IF any of you would like to experience this, PM me and I'll invite you to the set-up crew for the next show. So far, I've never had anyone inflict this upon themselves more than once (and I do treat them well!!).

It's an off year for me, but I'll gladly take you up on this for 2016. I'll likely regret it after the fact, but I've always been curious to see how chaotic setup day really is.

 

[asiufy]

No amount of power conditioning will help if you get 120V before everybody arrives for set-up, and on show day power sags to 99V in the middle of the day when everybody's air conditioning kicks on (AND it is the most crowded with bodies absorbing bass).

+1!

In one of our rooms, we were getting 107V on the first day, 102V on the second, in one particular outlet in that room. Needless to say, we had to pull power from a different outlet...


alex

 

[KeithR]

I think one important point missed is that Hifi shows are now used by consumers to ultimately request demos and buy new gear. If a room doesn't sound good, that customer is gone. You can say rooms suck and that show conditions rarely highlight a component etc, but it really doesn't matter as the intiial cut is being made at the show.

The stakes are high. Manufacturers and dealers need to treat it as such. Honestly, as I stated in my Newport review, most sound was quite good. I highlighted 6 or 7 great rooms and only like 3 that I didn't like.

 

[sbo6]

I thought we had moved from name calling guys. Let's not go back to it. We are having good substantive discussion about the topic, rather than the person. We very much appreciate everyone's efforts to get us here considering where we started. Let's not undo this.

Amir, is it me or is there a double standard? The OPs posts are peppered with condescension and name calling with comments like, "Cowards", "Cowardly PM", "I am an expert with years of experience with top level audio equipment.., I am not a once-in-awhile casual observer", "Separating the wheat from the chaff, those with the knowledge and those with an opinion." "You are a thoughtful poster and deserve a reply", "The sales of an industry? Perhaps you smoke on the pipe."

Enough is enough, if you want to halt the thread for name calling, look no further than the source.

 

[Bruce B]

Back to the thread intent...sort of...

A few years ago I attended a show, not as an exhibitor, but as an enthusiast. One room that I particularly remember was inhabited by the manufacturer, his wife, and his kids. I don't even remember his product, but I remember the feel of the room as if it were yesterday. There was a sense anxiousness about it, a presence of desperation, and maybe on the part of the wife, a sense of impending doom. All this was tempered by the guy's enthusiasm for the product and an unconscious projection of hope. No one besides my friend and I was in the room, and I got the feeling that it had been pretty much empty for the entire show. To make matters worse, it sounded bad, not your typical bad, but it met the criteria for a room where there was something bad for everyone. No one I know could have possibly fixed it. I don't think I have heard a worse room at a show anywhere. .

I think I was at that show! The wife was out in the hallway like a carnival barker trying to get people into the room to see the 2-headed dog!

 

[amirm]

I think one important point missed is that Hifi shows are now used by consumers to ultimately request demos and buy new gear. If a room doesn't sound good, that customer is gone. You can say rooms suck and that show conditions rarely highlight a component etc, but it really doesn't matter as the intiial cut is being made at the show.

As I am fond of saying, "business is not about fairness." Fairness is something that exists in our interactions. Businesses don't run with those rules yet they need to figure out how to succeed as you mention.

I was invited to give keynote to a gathering of Public Television Broadcasters in US at the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB). NAB is the most important US show for broadcasters. Only the best of the best video products are shown to the most critical audience. At the time, we wanted to show that you could stream 1080p video over the Internet. This, in an atmosphere were broadcasters were completely ignoring streaming as toy and not suitable for their distribution. So we encoded a handful of 1080p tracks at bit rates that were suitable for streaming. I had a ton of meetings as I do in these events but wanted to make sure everything was right the night before. I get there and I am horrified. The place seated a few thousand people. So they had put a stack of CRT projectors there on these massive screens. The image on them could not be more awful. Standard Definition looked bad let alone HD. But the show had to go on and I did the demos with little of our message getting across. I made a comment during the keynote that the display did not do justice to the content, only to have the organizers come and complain to me after the show that they had given us a great projector.

This type of thing was routine, rather than the exception so you made do with what you had.