New Pilium Gear!!!!
- Thread starter dmundy
- Start date
In 40 years, my observation has been that it takes 10-15 years for a new brand to establish a great, mature design, any which way I look at it. They may be that old, but the design is not proven enough in the field
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Ack, so what would you like Pilium to do?
We have 15+ full operating systems that have been sold and installed in the US over the last three years. There are 50+ sold and operating Pilium systems at customers in 20 different countries. We currently have orders that are being built at the Pilium factory for 50 pieces (dacs, preamps, amps).
We are opening seven different Rhapsody Listening Rooms across the US in the next 1-2 months, which all will have Pilium systems for customers to visit and listen to.
We are going to be driving three Magico M9 systems with full Pilium systems across the US (Brooklyn, DFW and at Magico).
Should we stop selling Pilium all together? Should we lower the prices? Should we cancel our Pilium advertising on WBF? Should we not post any information regarding Pilium on WBF?
Please advise on what you would like to see Pilium do so that it fits in line with your perspective of the high end audio market.
You/they can do whatever you want. Like everything else, though, it attracts scrutiny. If you think the product and pricing is competitive, so be it.
It only attracts scrutiny from those who have not heard or seen the Pilium gear. So be it. I have never heard one word of scrutiny from anyone that has ever heard Pilium gear and more importantly purchased Pilium gear after they heard it. Those who have heard and purchased Pilium gear more than not say "it's a bargain" at what it costs. But that's them not you. So be it.
I personally feel that the Pilium gear is a bargain. Not as a dealer, but from a listener perspective, from what I've heard when listening to MANY other $200K sets of monos compared with even the $49,900 Achilles stereo amp. The Pilium sound for me is more liquid sounding than ANY SS that I have ever heard, but high resolution and powerful. Just sounds like music to me, more than anything else I have ever heard. But that's just me....oh and the many Pilium users as well.
The Pilium guys who purchased are not idiots. They understand that Pilium is a new company. Sure there is a risk. But look at the build quality and listen to the sound. For whatever reason all of the people that have bought Pilium systems feel that any risk that is associated with their purchase is worth it.
It's not like Konstantinos (owner of Pilium) started up 2 years ago. He spent three years in development of the initial Brutal line, then went to market seven years ago. Then four years ago refined the design into the existing Divine line.
Pilium's development started 10 years ago, with products being produced for the last seven years. NOT ONE PIECE of gear has failed within seven years of shipping and installing Pilium systems. The stuff is built like a tank. But sounds liquid. The only disadvantage is each piece is very heavy.
If I wait around for an amazing newcomer to reach “maturity” before taking the plunge, there is the risk I age out first. At 63 I like to think I’ve got plenty of sand in the hourglass, but the odds of things going awry increases with each year. And if I don’t age out, my ears might! YOLO!
Actually three years ago I had the concern about whether Pilium "could deliver" in all respects. Ie, Sound quality, dependability, line of products, etc.
After installing Pilium systems across the US for the last three years and being involved with Pilium on a daily basis with personally talking to and working with Pilium distributors from 10+ countries, I no longer have any concerns. The only issue has been longer than normal lead times at certain times as Pilium has been getting so many orders from around the world that sometimes delivery times are longer than normal lead times, which which is normally 8 weeks.
Other than that Pilium is 100% rock solid reliable and the best amplification that I have ever heard. We also have three US service centers (Brooklyn, Chicago and San Francisco) Not one of them has been used for Pilium in the last three years.
Actually three years ago I had the concern about whether Pilium "could deliver" in all respects. Ie, Sound quality, dependability, line of products, etc.
Bob I appreciate your detailed description about Pilium equipment and they delivered as promised. The Elektra dac I had is an eye opening one for me. Looking forward for other Pilium equipment come to me. I’m in audio heaven.
That’s what I was planning to do. Now you tell me I can’t listen without friends helping.
If you choose to pay for what you get in terms of performance and build quality, I can't see why Pilium couldn't put the retail price in level with a similar product from Pass etc. You could also easily find preamps at twice the price from other brands on the market.
If you choose to count in intangible brand values etc. as well, that's somewhat a different story. Pilium is still a young brand.
/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se
So be it. It is what it is. Ack said what he wanted to say, I said what I wanted to say and you said what you wanted to say. All good. Have a nice weekend.
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Pass Labs, which is a great company, with a full line of great sounding products sells $5K preamps up to $30K or whatever. Pilium made a business decision to not pursue this piece of the market. Pilium is competing, from a build quality, many very expensive specialized parts and sonically in the global market that is occupied by Constellation, CH P, Soulution, Gryphon, Audionet, Goldmund, Boulder etc.
The $5K - $30K market for preamps is fully saturated by many companies. Lot's of companies with many affordable great products. Pilium could have come out with lower priced products to build it's name over a 10 year period. Pilium chose not to do that.
For those that prefer Pass Labs or products that are available in this price category they should pursue these products and leave Pilium for the customers that understand what Pilium is about.
Pilium's entry level Ares preamp is $34,900 and gets 90% of the Alexander preamps sound. Pilium's stereo amps start at $29,900 which in the market that Pilium has decided to pursue is not out of line. No, it does not compete price wise with $10K-$20K products, it has no intention of doing so at this point in time.
Pilium chose to go head to head with the mentioned brands that ALL sell $100K-$200K mono amps and $50K- $100K preamps.
If anyone is interested in understanding why Pilium's price points are what they are, please take a listen to Pilium if possible and do a comparison with ANY other top flight audio manufacturer on the planet as well. Compare the $99K Pilium Hercules mono amps with any $200K mono amps available in the market.
The many purchasers of Pilium over the last decade have done this and put their $$$ down after full investigations.
The $5K - $30K market for preamps is fully saturated by many companies. Lot's of companies with many affordable great products. Pilium could have come out with lower priced products to build it's name over a 10 year period. Pilium chose not to do that.
For those that prefer Pass Labs or products that are available in this price category they should pursue these products and leave Pilium for the customers that understand what Pilium is about.
Pilium's entry level Ares preamp is $34,900 and gets 90% of the Alexander preamps sound. Pilium's stereo amps start at $29,900 which in the market that Pilium has decided to pursue is not out of line. No, it does not compete price wise with $10K-$20K products, it has no intention of doing so at this point in time.
Pilium chose to go head to head with the mentioned brands that ALL sell $100K-$200K mono amps and $50K- $100K preamps.
If anyone is interested in understanding why Pilium's price points are what they are, please take a listen to Pilium if possible and do a comparison with ANY other top flight audio manufacturer on the planet as well. Compare the $99K Pilium Hercules mono amps with any $200K mono amps available in the market.
The many purchasers of Pilium over the last decade have done this and put their $$$ down after full investigations.
That’s an interesting view. I guess I’d say that no stereo is NEEDED, we do this because it (hopefully) brings us joy. But a lot of us derive joy in slightly different ways. Some chase the absolute last amount of detail, some a bigger soundstage.
For most of us, certainly for me, there are price points that simply exceed the joy I derive. That price point probably exists for each of us, and it is probably different for every individual . And I don’t see anything wrong with it, I think it simply is.
I’ve been thrilled with pilium so far. It has brought me much more joy than it cost me. I hope you get to listen to it and judge for yourself.
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