Oh jeez - M6, another super-speaker from Magico

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
6,258
739
610
Boston, MA
Ack:

"From this very M6 TAS review published just today http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/magico-m6/?page=4 - a speaker with no shortcomings

"Best of all, the M6 simply doesn’t have any shortcomings that one must consciously or unconsciously listen past."

Ack: "And this is why I started this thread."

You started the thread, by your own admission, not because of the cover photo, it seems, but because of this one quote. And I think that quote, combined with Harley's preface in which he quotes Valin, seems to make his point about his experience of listening to this speaker.
You are quite wrong, I am afraid Peter. I started the thread BEFORE the review became public, by a whole day actually. It was extremely easy to predict what would eventually be said in the review. I started the thread exactly because Magico jumped the gun in a rather sloppy way to scan that magazine cover, ahead of the review becoming public.

And my prediction not only came true, it could not have been better described than that one sentence: "Best of all, the M6 simply doesn’t have any shortcomings that one must consciously or unconsciously listen past."

This is how predictable the TAS/Magico relationship has become over the years. The fiasco I was talking about...
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
5,783
1,226
453
Greater Boston
You then conclude it nicely for me by your post here:

Ack:

"From this very M6 TAS review published just today http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/magico-m6/?page=4 - a speaker with no shortcomings

"Best of all, the M6 simply doesn’t have any shortcomings that one must consciously or unconsciously listen past."

Ack: "And this is why I started this thread."

You started the thread, by your own admission, not because of the cover photo, it seems, but because of this one quote. And I think that quote, combined with Harley's preface in which he quotes Valin, seems to make his point about his experience of listening to this speaker.
And that quote does remain problematic. Even if a system gets the "Gestalt" right, something that both our systems have made considerable progress on lately, there are still shortcomings that one needs to listen past. I certainly remain well aware of these in my own system, even though I *love* the sound and presentation of music.

There is no speaker or system without shortcomings. The higher you go up the 'food chain' the less they may become, but there will always be some. It is unavoidable.

For starters, there is no single system or speaker setup, in a single room, that can portray small, medium and large scale music all in the most optimal manner. Some systems and setups may succeed better than others, but none will achieve the best possible optimum for each single type of music.
 
Last edited:
May 30, 2010
16,902
1,698
720
Portugal
And that quote does remain problematic. (...)
Isolated quotes are most of the time problematic, as they are taken out of whole context. And debating them out of the full context without discussing the whole reviews ignores that high-end reviews are essentially hyperbolic - we are in an hobby driven by small objective differences, it is the responsibility of the reviewer to inform us of the big perceptual differences they can produce.

The objective of this type of "provocative" sentences should be making us read the whole review - BTW reviewers also follow market rules, they must attract new readers, not just the usual WBF fans and detractors. ;)
 
Likes: PeterA

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
4,866
79
470
The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
There is no speaker or system without shortcomings.
That, my friends is an absolute. The best we can achieve is an approximation.

Tom
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
5,783
1,226
453
Greater Boston
The objective of this type of "provocative" sentences should be making us read the whole review - BTW reviewers also follow market rules, they must attract new readers, not just the usual WBF fans and detractors. ;)
Or this type of "provocative" sentences turns us off from reading the review.

I became more interested in reading it after Peter provided some context, pointing us to the first paragraph of the review.
 
Likes: ack

cannata

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2014
476
33
233
Italy
You are quite wrong, I am afraid Peter. I started the thread BEFORE the review became public, by a whole day actually. It was extremely easy to predict what would eventually be said in the review. I started the thread exactly because Magico jumped the gun in a rather sloppy way to scan that magazine cover, ahead of the review becoming public.
A simple Google image search would have dismissed your hypothesis and saved you, and apparently many others, some steams.
The images of TAS/M6 cover and more were on-line as early as late Dec. Here is one exsample:
https://photos.edu.pl/tag/ocpubs-photos.html
 
Last edited:

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
6,258
739
610
Boston, MA
A simple Google image search would have dismissed your hypothesis and saved you, and apparently many others, some steams.
The images of TAS/M6 cover and more were on-line as early as late Dec. Here is one exsample:
https://photos.edu.pl/tag/ocpubs-photos.html
I don't do google searches on a daily basis of what might show up on the internet relating to anything in my daily life. I suspect this applies to everyone. But I do follow Magico on Facebook. Not sure what your point here is, but as usual, probably nothing.
 

cannata

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2014
476
33
233
Italy
I don't do google searches on a daily basis of what might show up on the internet relating to anything in my daily life.
You should try to do that before you post unfounded ideas. I know you like to argue simple facts, but unless you work for TAS publishing outfit, there is no way for you to know when a review become public.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
7,061
2,219
660
North Shore of Boston
You are quite wrong, I am afraid Peter. I started the thread BEFORE the review became public, by a whole day actually. It was extremely easy to predict what would eventually be said in the review. I started the thread exactly because Magico jumped the gun in a rather sloppy way to scan that magazine cover, ahead of the review becoming public.

And my prediction not only came true, it could not have been better described than that one sentence: "Best of all, the M6 simply doesn’t have any shortcomings that one must consciously or unconsciously listen past."

This is how predictable the TAS/Magico relationship has become over the years. The fiasco I was talking about...
Tasos, Well you make a post stating you started the thread and you supply a quote from the review's conclusion to support your statement that "This is why you started the thread". Then you acknowledge that you started the thread before you ever read the review, indicating that you must not have known about that quote. I found this all a bit confusing, but it isn't the first time, and surely it will not be the last.

But now I get your point that you were able to predict precisely what the review would state in its conclusion. And that there is the point of it all: TAS is too easy to predict when it comes to Magico products. I understand now.

I still like the review, and I think I understand the message Harley is trying to convey. Putting your quoted sentence into the context of the review, it makes a lot more sense, and at least I think that concluding quote is supported by the body of the review.

And I thank you again for providing a link to the review here so that I was able to read it.
 
Likes: tima

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
7,061
2,219
660
North Shore of Boston
And that quote does remain problematic. Even if a system gets the "Gestalt" right, something that both our systems have made considerable progress on lately, there are still shortcomings that one needs to listen past. I certainly remain well aware of these in my own system, even though I *love* the sound and presentation of music.

There is no speaker or system without shortcomings. The higher you go up the 'food chain' the less they may become, but there will always be some. It is unavoidable.

For starters, there is no single system or speaker setup, in a single room, that can portray small, medium and large scale music all in the most optimal manner. Some systems and setups may succeed better than others, but none will achieve the best possible optimum for each single type of music.
Al, I think the problem is taking such quotes out of context. It was done early in the thread and has become a subject of the discussion. I agree with Fransisco on this one. When read in the context of the whole review, and considering Valin's quote and Harley's comparative qualifications in the introduction, that quote becomes much less problematic, IMO. In fact, as a conclusion, it sort of follows from the review.

Respectfully, our two systems hardly claim to be state-of-the-art, despite how satisfied we may or may not be. They both have faults and shortcomings, as you suggest. The M6 purports to be at a much higher level, and I would suspect, given the review system context and the supposed quality of Harley's dedicated room, and proper system set up, that these speakers in this context would present far fewer shortcomings than our speakers, regardless of music scale or genre. Of course, that is just a guess because I have not heard what Harley has been living with.

I'm glad you became interested in reading the review after I added some context to that isolated quote.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
7,061
2,219
660
North Shore of Boston
Isolated quotes are most of the time problematic, as they are taken out of whole context. And debating them out of the full context without discussing the whole reviews ignores that high-end reviews are essentially hyperbolic - we are in an hobby driven by small objective differences, it is the responsibility of the reviewer to inform us of the big perceptual differences they can produce.

The objective of this type of "provocative" sentences should be making us read the whole review - BTW reviewers also follow market rules, they must attract new readers, not just the usual WBF fans and detractors. ;)
Nice post, Fransisco.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
5,783
1,226
453
Greater Boston
Al, I think the problem is taking such quotes out of context. It was done early in the thread and has become a subject of the discussion. I agree with Fransisco on this one. When read in the context of the whole review, and considering Valin's quote and Harley's comparative qualifications in the introduction, that quote becomes much less problematic, IMO. In fact, as a conclusion, it sort of follows from the review.
Understood, Peter, and I still stand by what I said yesterday:

Thanks for the perspective, Peter, and providing context for the quote of the sentence you replied to. Much appreciated.

To Robert Harley's great credit, the review then seems more of a balanced assessment, but I still think the quoted sentence should not have been written as such.

Having said that, I have been mercilessly quoted out of context too, with the most egregious example being by creationist websites from my review article on the origin of life by natural causes. Any reasonable reader would not have done that, but you don't get to pick your adversaries. Should I have written certain sentences in that article differently? Not to make the points that I was making, no. But perhaps to avoid misquoting, probably.
***

Back to your post:

Respectfully, our two systems hardly claim to be state-of-the-art, despite how satisfied we may or may not be. They both have faults and shortcomings, as you suggest. The M6 purports to be at a much higher level, and I would suspect, given the review system context and the supposed quality of Harley's dedicated room, and proper system set up, that these speakers in this context would present far fewer shortcomings than our speakers, regardless of music scale or genre. Of course, that is just a guess because I have not heard what Harley has been living with.
Which was exactly my point, far fewer shortcomings. But still some, which negates Harley's claim.

I'm glad you became interested in reading the review after I added some context to that isolated quote.
Yes, thank you.
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
6,258
739
610
Boston, MA
Isolated quotes are most of the time problematic, as they are taken out of whole context.
Taken out of context? Or rather, made out of context. I do think it's the latter.

Think about about it: if I were to go claiming that my speakers have few limitations and do so many things well, and then sum it all up with "they simply don't have any shortcomings", what I would tell anyone calling me out? That they took my summary out of context???!?!?
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
6,258
739
610
Boston, MA
Last edited:
Likes: GSOphile

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
5,783
1,226
453
Greater Boston

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
1,516
1,286
520
You are quite wrong, I am afraid Peter. I started the thread BEFORE the review became public, by a whole day actually. It was extremely easy to predict what would eventually be said in the review. I started the thread exactly because Magico jumped the gun in a rather sloppy way to scan that magazine cover, ahead of the review becoming public.

And my prediction not only came true, it could not have been better described than that one sentence: "Best of all, the M6 simply doesn’t have any shortcomings that one must consciously or unconsciously listen past."

This is how predictable the TAS/Magico relationship has become over the years. The fiasco I was talking about...
Reminds me of certain YouTube audio channels. The only thing worth seeing is the gear, may be hearing from the dealers / manufacturers etc. The review commentary is consistently so full of hyperbole you would think it is impossible to top, ever. It makes the whole review process absolutely pointless imo.
 
Likes: ack

leftside

Active Member
Jan 22, 2018
70
87
25
Are Magico that much worse at hyperbole than other manufacturers?
 

BruceD

VIP/Donor
Dec 13, 2013
1,175
185
285
Limbic system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbic_system

To "break the gestalt" is to go from enjoying music into critical listening mode, and yes it is work although not totally without rewards.

I'm glad to see that word/phrase getting some use outside of the art and architecture world where I first learned it.
Yes same here!--haven't heard it at all I can recall -well in relation to Audio anyway:cool:--

and to paraphrase your good self- since my own 1960's UK Art School terminology together with Bauhaus/ Hans Erni/von Hofmannsthal/etc

Thanks for the memory:)

BruceD
 
May 30, 2010
16,902
1,698
720
Portugal
I just read the M2 Stereophile review that another kind soul posted here today https://absolutehiend.com/media/wysiwyg/pdf/MagicoM2Stereophile.pdf and I was wrong in my original prediction about it - I find it carefully written and devoid of questionable superlatives.
I briefly went through it when I got Stereophile - I found it boring and lacking information on speaker sound characteristics. The nice interview with Alon Wolf, the Rattle / Uchida reccomendation and the measurements saves it. One of the less interesting and enthusiastic reviews of JA I have ever read. As always, IMHO, YMMV.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high-end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. A place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss existing and new audio products, music servers, music streamers and computer audio, digital to audio converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel to reel, speakers, headphones, tube amplifiers and solid state amplification. Founded in 2010 What's Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing