Let me also add, that from, say, 20 rows back, a 50 foot wide orchestra is not perceived as 50 feet wide. So, the need to reproduce a 50 foot wide orchestra, is not even necessary.
About 4th row center is the place to hear the orchestra. It is also the sound that good recordings capture, it is 50 feet wide and 30 feet deep and that is the sound I want played back.Let me also add, that from, say, 20 rows back, a 50 foot wide orchestra is not perceived as 50 feet wide. So, the need to reproduce a 50 foot wide orchestra, is not even necessary.
My system has recently developed to a place where I can begin to see the real appeal of reproduced orchestral music. Until this point, the limitations of my system had frankly left it uninteresting. But my system is barely capable of making it appealing. Is it possible to create a system that can do enjoyable orchestra reproduction in a small room?
(For those interested. My room is a thoroughly treated 10 x 13. System is: Custom server > Lampizator TRP > Bel Canto SET40i > Rosso Fiorentino Fiesole)
Coming back to your earlier comment re the glaring limitations of your system, garbling of complex passages and digital glare: the former indicates lack of driving power, which is unusual because 845 based amps are quite sturdy. The digital glare as I understand it & the Audiolab 's superiority mean you need to improve your server. Your hardware seems to be well setup and includes linear power supply to boot, so maybe it's the streaming s/ware ? Either that or the DAC's USB input.The two most glaring limitations at present are garbling of complex passages and a digital glare with certain dense upper midrange passages. Interestingly, it was a recently purchased inexpensive CD transport that lifted the veil (beyond the capabilities of my server) enough to inspire the potential journey to build something that could possibly do it much better.
Any advise on the strategy? Is it the 845 based SET amp that is falling apart first? Is it the size or implementation of the two way speakers? Is it the inexpensive Audiolab cd transport? The newfound potential has me highly motivated to move the ball forward.
impossible. Most systems do not even manage to realistically represent a simple drum kit 99% of the time. The dynamics of an orchestra alone is a major hurdle. from a very quiet piano to fortissimo almost impossible even at home. if you've ever visited a concert hall, you know what I mean. the spatial representation of an orchestra at home sounds like listening through a magnifying glass.
Sounds really good. but has nothing to do with reality. a drum kit just makes + 40dB dynamic and it's not played hard yet. If you have a really good music recording, it will produce 25dB of dynamic range.
List of dynamic in Music..some a really crap
for 40dB dynamics you need about 10,000 times the power, even large PA systems can't do that impossible at home.
Look in the Link
If I were to put my drums in between your speakers and play a drum solo for them, you'd understand that a speaker can't do that.dB chart voltage power table conversion sound pressure sound intensity decibel voltage level levels ratio dbu dBA dBm absolute relative acoustic measurement volts watts and pascals database - sengpielaudio Sengpiel Berlin
dB chart table power voltage conversion sound pressure intensity dB decibel level ratio dBA dBm acoustic measurement volts, watts, and pascals absolute relative voltage level database - sengpielaudio Eberhard Sengpielwww.sengpielaudio.com
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Hello, DasguteOhr. As mentioned before? Will it sound just like you are there in person? All you have to do is ask yourself if any performance you hear sounds exactly as if you are there in person and you will know the answer. All we can hope for is the best approximation of a reproduction but yes, it is possible to create a system that can do enjoyable orchestra reproduction in a small room.impossible. Most systems do not even manage to realistically represent a simple drum kit 99% of the time. The dynamics of an orchestra alone is a major hurdle. from a very quiet piano to fortissimo almost impossible even at home. if you've ever visited a concert hall, you know what I mean. the spatial representation of an orchestra at home sounds like listening through a magnifying glass.
Hello Tom,Hello, DasguteOhr. As mentioned before? Will it sound just like you are there in person? All you have to do is ask yourself if any performance you hear sounds exactly as if you are there in person and you will know the answer. All we can hope for is the best approximation of a reproduction but yes, it is possible to create a system that can do enjoyable orchestra reproduction in a small room.
Have you ever heard a true and realistic drum kick in your room, no matter the size? I didn't think so.
We are talking about a reproduction. The approximation thereof. An affect that gives one the illusion of....not an exact duplication of reality. Reality is not possible in any type of room. No matter the size. At least not in our lifetime and with current human advances in audio reproduction.
Tom
Tico & the Man
Very cool. Though Free Bird by Lynard Skynyrd would probably have been a bit more appropriate.Stairway to Heaven The very first Video!
Sweet Home Alabama
Small room acoustics, live music version.
Over 10 years ago I was trying to recreate the orchestral sound in a modest listening room. The first solution was, per Kal, mutlichannel with B&W 802D/804S and that worked pretty well. Then I heard Wilson Alexandria X2.2s in a large room and they were way better. A little research showed that the late Dave Wilson used to go to Vienna every year to hear the Vienna Phil in the Musikverien and that is the sound he successfully designed the X2.2s to recreate. So I wanted to get a pair but was concerned about their size and how big a room I would need. I was going to put them in a 15x20 room so I called the good folks at Wilson Audio and asked them directly if the full performance of the X2.2s could be achieved in such a small room and they said yes. I also asked if they would be the best speaker for my room and again they said yes. They were of course correct. I once asked Dave Wilson about this topic and he delighted in explaining it for about half an hour, covering much of the same info above. I think the speakers must be explicitly designed to achieve this goal and very few are.I’m sure you’re joking, but just in case you’re not......In audio, distance is portrayed through amplitude phase and time differentials. Stereo is an illusion, so all we do is to create the illusion of a 50 foot wide orchestra by playing music with the correct amplitudes, phase and time differentials. As long as room reflections aren’t doing too much damage, and the hi-fi gear is accurate, its quite straightforward these days to create the illusion of a 50 foot orchestra in a small room. The soundstage you hear isn’t real.....its created in your head when your brain interprets the amplitude and time differences contained in the stereo recording as distance and space, so the sounds coming from the 2 loudspeakers and impinging on your ears has the same differential patterns as the sounds hitting your ears from an orchestra in a concert hall. The soundstage is already in the signal coming out of the loudspeakers and is not made by the loudspeakers themselves, which are just pistonic sources of sound wave energy. The better the loudspeakers are, the more accurately they produce the musical signal that your brain uses to create the mental illusion of a sound stage. Of course loudspeakers are just transducers, so the soundstage-rich signal has to be correctly produced by the preceding chain coming from and including the source.