Is it me or am I seeing more and more people using seperate power supplies for various components? Is this really necessary or just another marketing ploy to get us to part with dollars?
John
John
Power Supply units!
- Thread starter Johnny Vinyl
- Start date
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I'm thinking likewise! I have little doubt that in some cases this may represent a benefit, but isn't the addition of yet another piece of equipment in the daisychain potentially detrimental?
John
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I don't believe it to be detrimental. Isolation of the power supply is a plus.
My Lamm LL1 Signature preamp is a dual mono 4 chassis preamp each channel having it's own separate power supply
My Lamm LL1 Signature preamp is a dual mono 4 chassis preamp each channel having it's own separate power supply
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I guess we could close the thread now? LOL! And although I'd love to wield my thread-closing powers, I'd also like to see some more posts on this issue. Any takers?
John
Larger and separate Power Supplies can have a definite benefit to the performance. As Steve has mentioned in the case of his Lamm amps, the top of the line Krell Evolution monoblock amps and Preamp this is true. The same is true for my Teres Certus 450 Turntable, Soundsmith Strain Gauge 410 Phono Preamp, and the Audio Alchemy DTI PRO32 jitter reducer that I am getting. This is also true of the Anniversary ARC Preamp. My upgraded ARC LS10 Line Stage Preamp may well perform as well as a stock Reference 5 (we know that it is better than a Reference 3, but I do not know how it compares to the Anniversary Preamp). I know that a larger power supply would improve my modified Sansui TU-9900 AM/FM Tuner. I know that in general monoblock amps sound better than stereo amps. I know that my upgraded (modified) Aragon Palladium 1K power amps are much better than stock and most any amp that we have compared them to, but again, I am not sure how they would fare against some of the amps with the separate Power supplies.
Rich
Rich
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I agree it's a bit of both. From a technical point of view, having the PSU in a separate box helps keep power supply related nasties away from sensitive circuitry, and I suppose it is easier to go bigger in a separate box. There's no doubt that there's also a bit of marketing going on--and of course, the extra box will have non-negligible effect on the price! I guess it's part of the diminishing returns thing. At the lower end of the market, for the price of an external PSU one can get a better bang for the buck by improving the actual item with which the PSU is associated.
And let's be honest, multi-box products like the ARC Reference Anniversary or Lamm LL1 Signature look good!
And let's be honest, multi-box products like the ARC Reference Anniversary or Lamm LL1 Signature look good!
From the electrical point of view, having the power transformers away from the amplification is a good think, as the magnetic field of transformers can affect the signal. Also, the mains current has plenty of HF and RF garbage that is easier to keep away. But unless the power connectors are of very good quality you can loose any gain you got with a poor supply connection.
The now discontinued Cello units had separate power supplies and the umbilical cables were connected with screw quality busbars - a very good solution, although not the fastest to disconnect or connect. Also, any mistake in the power wires could be ruinous for the units and the owner - I always re-checked them several times before powering the Audio Palette!
Unhappily some good power supplies were connected using audio connectors that were not the most reliable - but the best current units use military specified expensive connectors.
The now discontinued Cello units had separate power supplies and the umbilical cables were connected with screw quality busbars - a very good solution, although not the fastest to disconnect or connect. Also, any mistake in the power wires could be ruinous for the units and the owner - I always re-checked them several times before powering the Audio Palette!
Unhappily some good power supplies were connected using audio connectors that were not the most reliable - but the best current units use military specified expensive connectors.
There is also some possibility of mechanical vibrations from the power transformers due to movement of the coils and magnetostriction (bulk expansion and contracton of magnetic material in a magnetic field). These mechanical vibrations can transfer noise to the signal circuit.
Also, as someone has already mentioned, stray magnetic fields can get into the signal circuit. There is generally no spec on the external magnetic field and so it can vary from transformer to transformer even within the same product code. A design can be prototyped around one sample of a transformer, but when it's transfered to production the design is vulnerable to the supplier's manufacturing variations.
Best to just have a separate power supply.
Also, as someone has already mentioned, stray magnetic fields can get into the signal circuit. There is generally no spec on the external magnetic field and so it can vary from transformer to transformer even within the same product code. A design can be prototyped around one sample of a transformer, but when it's transfered to production the design is vulnerable to the supplier's manufacturing variations.
Best to just have a separate power supply.
Rich is correct; you have to have seen the '50s sci-fi movie "Forbidden Planet"
which gave Dan D'Agostino the idea for the name of his company; "Krell".
Krell metal is very dense and has a high heat capacity so that even the "blaster"
of Commander Adams can't damage it or even heat it up. See second picture
down at:
http://www.umich.edu/~umfandsf/film/promise/forbidden-krell-tech.html
You can watch what happens to the Krell metal at the end. SPOILER ALERT:
This video clip gives away the identity of the mysterious force that is killing
members of the crew.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQwmKClCAbQ
Greg
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Great clip and movie. Can't remember which Krell amplifier was modeled after the power supplies in the background of the clip.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
They have been using separate power supplies on the Pro side for decades... and you already know they think we're crazy! So it MUST be true!
H Ho's Fire preamp has a separate power supply that is nothing but huge. There are two good reasons why the two parts aren't joined as one. Firstly, the primary box gets too hot to touch for too long. Also, a one piece would be too big to fit into a rack.
Curious as to who the "we" is that knows an ARC LS-10 is better than a Ref 3?? I am going to take a wild guess and say you modded the snot out of it. If so, what did you do? How do you know that a larger power supply would improve your Sansui tuner? A tuner is not swinging much voltage nor is it carrying a lot of current. When you do your mods to your gear, are you making any actual circuit changes or just parts swapping?
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