Quality Re-Masters

[LL21]

Thanks, Lee. I decided to go with SACD version of Jazz of Pawnshop 1 and 2 (which were 1/3rd the price of K2)...but i elected to go with K2 of Time out and also of Kind of Blue since i prefer those albums more.

 

[garylkoh]

Thank you....yes, i happened to come across elusive disc and emailed them but did not hear back. So i have gone with Acoustic Sounds thanks to you.

I will say, i feel fortunate that finally, i feel like i enjoy listening to large-scale symphonic music on my system as much as smaller scale acoustic or hip hop/rap. Something to do with the amp being able to drive the signal thru the speakers with the level of dynamics, instrument separation that always felt constrained/smashed together...which bugged me before. I am playing Karajan's Beethoven symphonies now and really enjoying it. So now i am really looking forward to hearing this version of Vivaldi Four Seasons on my system.

That's the problem with large-scale symphonic music - you need power, and lots of it. I have a new-found respect for lots of power after spending a weekend with the Colosseum amplifier you now own, and with working on a new design for my own high-powered monoblocks. I know that I'm always saying that the 1st watt is the most important one, but with large orchestral works, to get closer and closer to the "ease" of the live performance with more and more power.

 

[garylkoh]

Thanks, Lee. I decided to go with SACD version of Jazz of Pawnshop 1 and 2 (which were 1/3rd the price of K2)...but i elected to go with K2 of Time out and also of Kind of Blue since i prefer those albums more.

I haven't yet got the K2 of Time Out, but by far the best digital re-master I have of this album is the Mastersound long-box SBM version.

Not all of the SBM re-masters are worth what some eBay sellers are asking. I have several, but the ones that really stand out are Roger Waters Amused to Death, Time Out, and Stevie Ray Vaughan Heavy Weather. With Heavy Weather, I thought that in my system, the digital was even better than the re-issued LP.

 

[rblnr]

Same with U2, Sting/Police. But i have found on a couple that the remaster was at most 20% better...and probably mainly revealed on a very, very revealing system. In cases where i really, really cared about the album, i have bought the MoFi after owning the original CD and found the MoFi to be better..

It's always hit 'n miss in my experience, but for stuff I know I like, I almost always take the small chance. 20% (or more hopefully) better at 15 - 30 bucks ain't bad, particularly for stuff I know will get used. It's a lot better value than cables, cones, etc. Not surprisingly, you just can't beat better source material for SQ value.

And yeah, the recent U2 remasters are a definite improvement. I know Joshua Tree best, and a lot of the murk is gone, though the mix is still dense as intended. Deeper, cleaner bass too. Will compare the recent Mofi vinyl of Nevermind to the new 24/96 HDtracks sometime. The vinyl was the best version (clearly better than the mofi CD) of that album I'd heard until I got the 24/96.

 

[Old Listener]

which Karajan?

I am playing Karajan's Beethoven symphonies now and really enjoying it.

Which set? I'm aware of four Karajan sets:

with the Philharmonia on EMI from the 50s
with the BPO on DG from 1963 (some people think this is the best set)
with the BPO on DG from the late mid-late 1970s
(Some people think that this performance of Sym. 9 is the best)
with the BPO on DG from the 1980s (Karajan at his most polished.)

I'm always interested in hearing what other people have to say about specific recordings.

So now i am really looking forward to hearing this version of Vivaldi Four Seasons on my system.

Most recently, I have been taken by these recordings

Kremer / ECO on a DVD video (a brisk walking tempo for Winter/ii stayed in my mind for months. Later, I got the DVD and separated the audio. The tempo seemed too quick now.)

Shaham / Orpheus Chamber Orchestra on DG (An all around winner. Another brisk walking tempo.)

Julia Fischer / ? on YouTube videos (everything is convincing, very lovely Winter/ii)

Bill

 

[LL21]

Which set? I'm aware of four Karajan sets:

with the Philharmonia on EMI from the 50s
with the BPO on DG from 1963 (some people think this is the best set)
with the BPO on DG from the late mid-late 1970s
(Some people think that this performance of Sym. 9 is the best)
with the BPO on DG from the 1980s (Karajan at his most polished.)

I'm always interested in hearing what other people have to say about specific recordings.



Most recently, I have been taken by these recordings

Kremer / ECO on a DVD video (a brisk walking tempo for Winter/ii stayed in my mind for months. Later, I got the DVD and separated the audio. The tempo seemed too quick now.)

Shaham / Orpheus Chamber Orchestra on DG (An all around winner. Another brisk walking tempo.)

Julia Fischer / ? on YouTube videos (everything is convincing, very lovely Winter/ii)

Bill

I have the one from the early 60's on DG. In general, i like his 3 and 7th quite a bit...also 5th. I also own the full Harnoncourt set...while Karajan is my preference for 1-8, i decidedly prefer the Harnoncourt 9th...very rich, powerfully romantic in noble/neoclassical way (not a Russian 20th century way...which is a style i like, just not for my Beethoven which i feel should still tie all the way back to the melodic, cerebral approach that Bach does so well.). Hadyn was a true master in breaking from Bach, imho, and Beethoven made the full leap...but i still like to keep some control in the presentation. Hence why i prefer Karajan over Harnancourt...except in 9th where Harnoncourt's 9th somehow is so powerful, with a rich touch which seems to bring more majesty to the performance. ok, that's enuf of me being a critic...which i am not.

On Vivaldi, i have the Marriner (24/96 remaster onto CD), the Hogwood Ancient Academy and the Biondi. In truth, my favorite is Marriner, though i do like the tonality of the Ancient instruments (on my system...on many systems, they are wiry and almost strident...not here.) I will say, having heard the Accardo snips on Amazon, i am extremely intrigued by his interpretations...i really, really like them. They are very different, and pull out details in a way that feels equally valid...but is refreshing such that i almost am willing to consider it a whole new experience.

of course, i need to hear the full music...but the 30-second snips were very promising (to me).

 

[Old Listener]

Old Favorites

I have the one from the early 60's on DG. ... I also own the full Harnoncourt set... Hadyn was a true master in breaking from Bach, imho, and Beethoven made the full leap. ...Hence why i prefer Karajan over Harnancourt...except in 9th where Harnoncourt's 9th somehow is so powerful, with a rich touch which seems to bring more majesty to the performance. ok, that's enuf of me being a critic...which i am not.

I don't have the Karajan '63 set. The Beethoven 9th from the '77 set is the only Karajan/Beethoven I have.

I do have the Harnoncourt set which I continue to listen to. I bought it for the COE rather than Harnoncourt. Symphony No. 4 is the one I play most often. Very muscular performance.

Ah, Haydn. A very intelligent, witty man. So many great symphonies, string quartets, piano trios and piano sonatas. And 4 very fine concerti.

Nothing wrong with talking about recordings you like and dislike. The problem comes when opinion is promoted as absolute truth to the exclusion of anyone else's opinion.

On Vivaldi, i have the Marriner (24/96 remaster onto CD), the Hogwood Ancient Academy and the Biondi. ... though i do like the tonality of the Ancient instruments...

I'd enjoyed the Loveday/ Marriner/ASMF recording on LP and CD for more than 35 years. I don't remember just when it came out.

Sometimes period instruments just fit the music and the performance.

Bill

 

[LL21]

ah-hahh!!! another person who listens to Haydn. I am fortunate to own close to 450 classical CDs...i have built it up reading thru the Penguin Guide which i enjoy as an educational tool to help me sort thru the millions of titles. I own nearly all of Bachs various works...and the one who comes next is Hadyn. Not Mozart, nor Beethoven. I admit I like Baroque...so i also have CPE bach and brothers, Telemann, Vivaldi, and the rest. But Haydn to my ear is truly special...he was a hugely prolific disciplined writer (like Bach) who was both lyrical, while inventive, almost pioneering. The form of the symphony i have been told can be in some part traced back to Hadyn's nearly 100 short-form symphonies. i have them all...and all his string quartets (Kodaly). Stunning to the last one.

 

[rblnr]

New remaster of the Stones 'Some Girls' is an obvious improvement over the original CD -- greater clarity throughout the frequency spectrum.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

New remaster of the Stones 'Some Girls' is an obvious improvement over the original CD -- greater clarity throughout the frequency spectrum.

The vinyl isn't getting much love over at the SH Forums. Some calling it one of the worst remasters of the year.

 

[Bruce B]

New remaster of the Stones 'Some Girls' is an obvious improvement over the original CD -- greater clarity throughout the frequency spectrum.

I think it's unlistenable... I'd rather listen to my original LP

 

[rblnr]

I think it's unlistenable... I'd rather listen to my original LP

Maybe I spoke too soon, just a quick listen to two tracks -- should have mentioned that Will go thru and report back.

 

[FrantzM]

That's the problem with large-scale symphonic music - you need power, and lots of it. I have a new-found respect for lots of power after spending a weekend with the Colosseum amplifier you now own, and with working on a new design for my own high-powered monoblocks. I know that I'm always saying that the 1st watt is the most important one, but with large orchestral works, to get closer and closer to the "ease" of the live performance with more and more power.

Hi

My sentiments exactly... I have tried to understand the flea-powered amplifier fascination .. Could not .. Real Music even when not symphonic breathes with large dynamic swings .. For most speakers including those in the mid 90 db of sensitivity, that means at least a couple of hundreds of watts in most living rooms ... I am yet to be convinced of the contrary...

 

[fas42]

Real Music even when not symphonic breathes with large dynamic swings .. For most speakers including those in the mid 90 db of sensitivity, that means at least a couple of hundreds of watts in most living rooms ... I am yet to becovinced of the contrary...

Those dynamic swings come about when the amplifier works properly up to the limits of its power supplies; the really simple way of doing it these days is to put in a monster power supply, way above what is really needed, a sledgehammer to crack a nut, and then you have the "headroom" in the power supply so that it is always cruising at desired volume levels. Once you ask a conventional power supply to drop back from the cruising gear to a lower gear to get up a bit of a hill, then it starts falling apart as far as SQ goes ...

Frank

 

[LL21]

Hi

My sentiments exactly... I have tried to understand the flea-powered amplifer fascination .. Could not .. Real Music even when not symphonic breathes with large dynamic swings .. For most speakers including those in the mid 90 db of sensitivity, that means at least a couple of hundreds of watts in most living rooms ... I am yet to becovinced of the contrary...

Hi Frantz,

i think you and i seem to be see eye to eye here. I am no techie...as evidenced by my many more questions than answers here in WBF. we both like pure high power.

At the same time, I am told by some that, with mid-90's sensitivity speakers and friendly impedance load, you can get large dynamics out of, say 30+ watts, providing those are true 30-50 watts. ie, a huge power supply and enormous current (like Vitus, for example)...because in truth 95db is very loud (approximately a lawnmower at 6 feet, i think)...and that is only using 1 watt...which means 15 db of additional dynamic range continuous and probably 18db peak. 113db.

OTOH, all i can say is that this amp is the first one to place me happily in a position of enjoying orchestral...and i am probably running 250watts into my 95db efficient speakers with easily 500 peak power. And i am certain i am not using the majority of it...and yet somehow this amp just creates the range and ease of instrumental delineation of the orchestra i could not enjoy before. i suspect it is something besides or in addition to raw power...because i feel certain if someone brought in the correct 30 watt SET (Lamm ML2.2?), i could be very happy listening to orchestral. i almost got them demo, but i do like my volume and deep house electronica on occassion and did not wish to clip.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Those dynamic swings come about when the amplifier works properly up to the limits of its power supplies; the really simple way of doing it these days is to put in a monster power supply, way above what is really needed, a sledgehammer to crack a nut, and then you have the "headroom" in the power supply so that it is always cruising at desired volume levels. Once you ask a conventional power supply to drop back from the cruising gear to a lower gear to get up a bit of a hill, then it starts falling apart as far as SQ goes ...

Frank

And the road that goes around this very expensive path is active. If the engineer knows the exact load of the specific driver that each amp in a multi amp system is driving, if there are no passive crossovers in the path between that amp and driver adding to that load and making it less predictable, such big, expensive iron is not necessarily required. The right iron for a very specific job. Or at least that has been my experience. Some of the best headroom I've experienced -- characterized by extreme openness and clarity and an easy, unstrained performance through transient peaks -- came from active monitors with plate amps built into the speakers themselves. Mind you, they're not necessarily weak. My own deliver 75 watts to each tweeter and 250 watts to each mid-bass driver. But there's no room for "big iron" in there.

Tim

 

[LL21]

Hi Tim,

i have read about actives before...what is the basic reason that people seem to find them so effortless? is it because 250 watts into the bass driver and a separate 75 watts into the tweeter...is like 325 watts from a mono amp into a 'regular speaker'? or due to more efficient connection between amp and cone, it is closer to double that or something?

i am no techie, that much is clear from my question. Thanks for any guidance.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi
I think this would be an interesting subject in itself .. How much power is required... I will open a thread onthis very subject and we could move the discussion there ... I believe in serious power .. The more, the better... FWIW

 

[rblnr]

My sentiments exactly... I have tried to understand the flea-powered amplifier fascination .. Could not .. Real Music even when not symphonic breathes with large dynamic swings .. For most speakers including those in the mid 90 db of sensitivity, that means at least a couple of hundreds of watts in most living rooms ... I am yet to be convinced of the contrary...

I feel exactly the same way. Never been really turned on by a SET-type system; at best, appreciation.

And the road that goes around this very expensive path is active. If the engineer knows the exact load of the specific driver that each amp in a multi amp system is driving, if there are no passive crossovers in the path between that amp and driver adding to that load and making it less predictable, such big, expensive iron is not necessarily required. The right iron for a very specific job. Or at least that has been my experience. Some of the best headroom I've experienced -- characterized by extreme openness and clarity and an easy, unstrained performance through transient peaks -- came from active monitors with plate amps built into the speakers themselves. Mind you, they're not necessarily weak. My own deliver 75 watts to each tweeter and 250 watts to each mid-bass driver. But there's no room for "big iron" in there.

My ATC 20-2s are similar, 50w for the tweeter, 250 for the mid woof. And I find transparency, ease and unrestrained dynamics to be a hallmark of ATC designs. Never encountered a speaker its size before too that you can keep turning up without any compression or breakup. It's obviously more than a numbers/power supply game. As usual, it's application.

What you get too with the active versions of ATCs vs their passive counterparts is phase/time coherence, and this pays off in better image depth.

 

[Old Listener]

a fine remastered Jazz CD - Satch Plays Fats

I've had a Satch Plays Fats CD for years. It was released in 1986 and has OK sound. The music is first rate and the sound quality didn't spoil my listening pleasure.

I recently found this remastered version

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012GMYEG

There are a number of bonus tracks and the sound quality is significantly better in my opinion. Singers and soloists come out of the general sound in a vivid but natural sounding way. I hear a bit of distortion for a second in two or three places. I'd guess that the microphones or preamps were overloaded.

If you like Louis Armstrong as a performer or Fats Waller as a composer, I'd recommend this to you highly.

Bill