Reference Turntable, The Step Beyond

Dear Peter,

- It does present smaller image size or more distant listening perspective on all recording. Degree does var though. By smaller or more distant I mean in comparison to Opus1 and MSL Platinum.
- Not the arm or the table. The AtlasSL has been on same arm and tt as Opus1 and MSL. No need to question if I was hearing the arm or the tt.
- The MSL and Opus1 consistently give upfront/closer presentation on AF1P and Kronos in comparison to the AtlasSL.
- I really don’t know how the recordings were made. How close the mic was or what was actually the true size. We have to give these carts to Gary Goh to try and listen to his own Anne Bisson direct to disc. The recording was a one-take, everyone on the same stage live kind of thing. He can answer us which cart has true to source size, scale and presentation.
- You thought right about transparency of carts of this caliber. The three are extremely transparent. Whether you hear its inherent transparency is really up to your arm and the rest of your gears. If you don’t find them extremely transparent, judge your arm first not the carts.
- You seem like a true to source type of listener, Peter. I really don’t know what true to source is. Is tape true to source? I used to use tape as reference. Now that I find my vinyls could sound better than tape on more and more occasions. I just don’t worry about what true to source and go for what I perceive as real and give me the suspension of disbelief. In aspect of image size, particularly in jazz, the AtlasSL is like I listen to jazz in a cafe of the Oriental Hotel or life size Sarah Vaughan standing in my room. Btw, I don’t like sitting up front closest to the stage when I go to jazz pub.

Kind regards,
Tang

Thank you Tang. I'm not talking about "true to source" per se. To me that would mean that a system presents exactly what is on the recording. I agree that that is difficult or imposible to verify. My comments were referring to the listener perspective as presented by each of these cartridges. I think that that is highly dependant on the mic position and then on the intent of the recording engineers and then on how the cartridge is designed and how it performs in a given system and room. You have clarified for me a characteristic of these cartridges, namely how up close or distant they present the music that is on the recording in your setting. The Atlas, in your system and room, seems to present smaller image sizes and a more distant listening perspective than the other two cartridges. That is new information for me which I have not read before.

I also don't like to sit too close to live jazz musicians. It is too loud. And I can't stand when everything in amplified in a small jazz club. I do like to sit fairly close in a live chamber setting and in about the 10-20th row in a good symphony hall. If a recording is close mic'd, I don't really want the system to present a distant listening perspective. That implies to me that something about the system is altering the way the information on the recording. If the recording is up close, I want to experience that. If it is more distant, then I would prefer that. I feel differently about other sonic characteristics of recordings like dynamics and tone.

I do enjoy hearing differences between recordings, but I also want the music to sound natural in general, so it is a matter of finding balance that meets my preferences. If I wanted only what is on the recording, my component choices would be slightly different. I might not have Pass electronics or two way speakers with limited frequency range, for instance. But I do adjust my VTA for different LPs which does get me closer to what is on a particular LP. I strongly believe that those who choose not to adjust VTA are getting a more blended, less specific to each LP sound, but that is a discussion for another day.

I can't answer your question about tape being "true to source." I don't own a tape player or tapes. I have heard a few tape set ups and have not actually preferred them to LP in the same system. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I do have some amazing Direct to Disk LPs which may arguably be truer recordings of the actual event. It also depends on what you mean by "source". Some people refer to the recording as the source, some the live event, some the original tape. Some think of it as the idea in the imagination of the composer, and that is surely corrupted many times before we even hear it live, let alone in our listening rooms.
 
Thank you Tang. I'm not talking about "true to source" per se. To me that would mean that a system presents exactly what is on the recording. I agree that that is difficult or imposible to verify. My comments were referring to the listener perspective as presented by each of these cartridges. I think that that is highly dependant on the mic position and then on the intent of the recording engineers and then on how the cartridge is designed and how it performs in a given system and room. You have clarified for me a characteristic of these cartridges, namely how up close or distant they present the music that is on the recording in your setting. The Atlas, in your system and room, seems to present smaller image sizes and a more distant listening perspective than the other two cartridges. That is new information for me which I have not read before.

I also don't like to sit too close to live jazz musicians. It is too loud. And I can't stand when everything in amplified in a small jazz club. I do like to sit fairly close in a live chamber setting and in about the 10-20th row in a good symphony hall. If a recording is close mic'd, I don't really want the system to present a distant listening perspective. That implies to me that something about the system is altering the way the information on the recording. If the recording is up close, I want to experience that. If it is more distant, then I would prefer that. I feel differently about other sonic characteristics of recordings like dynamics and tone.

I do enjoy hearing differences between recordings, but I also want the music to sound natural in general, so it is a matter of finding balance that meets my preferences. If I wanted only what is on the recording, my component choices would be slightly different. I might not have Pass electronics or two way speakers with limited frequency range, for instance. But I do adjust my VTA for different LPs which does get me closer to what is on a particular LP. I strongly believe that those who choose not to adjust VTA are getting a more blended, less specific to each LP sound, but that is a discussion for another day.

I can't answer your question about tape being "true to source." I don't own a tape player or tapes. I have heard a few tape set ups and have not actually preferred them to LP in the same system. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I do have some amazing Direct to Disk LPs which may arguably be truer recordings of the actual event. It also depends on what you mean by "source". Some people refer to the recording as the source, some the live event, some the original tape. Some think of it as the idea in the imagination of the composer, and that is surely corrupted many times before we even hear it live, let alone in our listening rooms.

In direct comparison the Atlas SL vs the Etna SL can seem slightly more distant with vocals. I believe its more that the Etna is a little artificially forward in the mix as the Atlas top to bottom is more neutral and coherent.
 
In direct comparison the Atlas SL vs the Etna SL can seem slightly more distant with vocals. I believe its more that the Etna is a little artificially forward in the mix as the Atlas top to bottom is more neutral and coherent.

XV-1, how would you describe the frequency responses of the two cartridges? Have you seen measurements? Perhaps differences here would explain the different listening perspectives.
 
XV-1, how would you describe the frequency responses of the two cartridges? Have you seen measurements? Perhaps differences here would explain the different listening perspectives.

Peter

good question. I don't think many cartridge manufacturers publish frequency response anymore, Lyra included - which is a pity. There is always more going on than just the frequency response measures, but like speaker measurements it can explain some things.

the Etna in direct comparison seems a bit rolled off in the bass, a little pumped in the presence region to make vocals and soundstage more forward combined with a slight reduction in the high mids to reduce the bite on lead instruments etc.
The Atlas goes deeper and is more linear/neutral from top to bottom. There is a wider sound quality spectrum with the Atlas between great and poor recordings.

Personally with my musical taste and the wide range of music I play I prefer the Atlas over the Etna. the Etna is superb thou and sounds great as well but it does not do rock or dynamic electronic music as well as the Atlas.
 
the Etna in direct comparison seems a bit rolled off in the bass, a little pumped in the presence region to make vocals and soundstage more forward combined with a slight reduction in the high mids to reduce the bite on lead instruments etc.
The Atlas goes deeper and is more linear/neutral from top to bottom. There is a wider sound quality spectrum with the Atlas between great and poor recordings.

Excellent. I could not describe better. This is the advantage of someone having both carts in the same system with multi tts. He can describe exactly what he hears with no need to recall hearing memory.

You sure listen to lots of music XV-1...very diverse too. I look at what you listen almost every day in another forum.

Apologize for talking cart in this thread.

Kind regards,
Tang
 
Excellent. I could not describe better. This is the advantage of someone having both carts in the same system with multi tts. He can describe exactly what he hears with no need to recall hearing memory.

You sure listen to lots of music XV-1...very diverse too. I look at what you listen almost every day in another forum.

Apologize for talking cart in this thread.

Kind regards,
Tang

Thanks Tang

Lots of different music goes hand in hand with many turntables and cartridges. Variety is the spice of life.;)
 
Now I have an EMT JPA 66 MkIII complimenting the 927. The phono is very musical, quiet and smooth.

This combo is such a formidable vinyl front.

C5A7477D-92C1-4BA8-9137-FC150D83BB7C.jpg

Tang:)
 
Dalby record weight. Nice.
 
Tang, I look at my newly optimised tt and am pretty happy w myself, and then come across yr newly impvd EMT and think, God DAMN!!!
 
Congratulations Tango. I look forward to seeing the photographs of your new AS2000. Do you plan to share a direct listening comparison report between the AS2000 and your other turntables with us?

After all my tt setups are fully optimized, I will invite Ked to fly to BKK and knock himself out with all tts and carts I have. He can write about them however he wishes. I of course can give my view. I suspect he may want to write about my shitty sounding Cessaro too. The photography job will be done by me since he sucks at it :D.

Kind regards,
Tang
 
Lol. I was already planning to load your pics and videos.

Great to have one feeding me Italian food and the other feeding me Thai food, while showing the best of audio gear
 
that player+riaa is sexiest combo on earth imo
do you have an A80 tape as well?
the next sexiest ....:cool:

Unfortunately, my wife said the 927 looks like a Pad Thai (Thai noodle) frying pan. :(
 
My GF says that no audiophiles look like Tom Hiddlestone.
 
I haven’t got one of those yet, Christensen. A wife, that is.
 
Unfortunately, my wife said the 927 looks like a Pad Thai (Thai noodle) frying pan. :(

And does she think you look like Sat Taan Tod Kra Tiem
 

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