Reference Turntable, The Step Beyond
- Thread starter ddk
- Start date
Tang, these are some of the carts working in the Ortofon 297 on the EMT, two are special Denons 103
www.AudioCirc.com
www.AudioCirc.com
Sawasdee E,
I think you have the Atlas. You should try it on the Ortofon on 927. I am really enjoying this combo at the moment. My new tone arm wire is now broken in. The tone of Atlas isnt like the Atlas. Maybe I am not making sense, but thats what I am hearing now. The music just flows and draw me in. I hear people describe an idler drive they like to say about punch, rhythm, bass etc. I think those that describe the 927 with these vocabs are really not hearing it. I listen to this 927 setup and it doesnt make me think of vocabs. My AF1 with Coralstone on Axiom does that. When I listen it reminds me the stage is wide, deep, some instruments are really showing, sweet, everything is so nicely placed, etc. I cant wait tho have David recheck and possibly fine tune the setup of the EMT when he comes to install the AS. Two birds with one stone
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Tang
I think you have the Atlas. You should try it on the Ortofon on 927. I am really enjoying this combo at the moment. My new tone arm wire is now broken in. The tone of Atlas isnt like the Atlas. Maybe I am not making sense, but thats what I am hearing now. The music just flows and draw me in. I hear people describe an idler drive they like to say about punch, rhythm, bass etc. I think those that describe the 927 with these vocabs are really not hearing it. I listen to this 927 setup and it doesnt make me think of vocabs. My AF1 with Coralstone on Axiom does that. When I listen it reminds me the stage is wide, deep, some instruments are really showing, sweet, everything is so nicely placed, etc. I cant wait tho have David recheck and possibly fine tune the setup of the EMT when he comes to install the AS. Two birds with one stone
.Tang
How do you find th fidelity research fr7 f I have often been tempted to get one ?
Would be fun to know how it compares to your Sony XL55! I only have a regular FR7, which I have often thought about retipping with a more advanced stylus profile just to see how it changes...
You hear a lot of happy experiences shared in various threads when new gear is introduced into someone’s system. Well..Here is another one.
This past few days, the 927 setup made me think what I have been hearing from my Kronos and AF1 setups. All three tt setups I have have different kinds of presentation and sound. The Kronos setup has tapelike clarity, resolution, snap and dynamic, a bit up front, light and medium rare (raw). The AF1 setup presents sound like the way it was built. Very attention to detail, very organized, everything is neatly placed, solid, articulate, extremely quiet, I would go so far as saying it is a tt with some hint of digital.
What does 927 sound like? It is difficult to answer. I can put vocabs into describing Kronos and Techdas because they make me “aware” of their characters. And these characters show up consistently in all records I play regardless of arm cart combos. But words, adjectives don’t seem to pop up when listening to the 927 setup I have now. You can ask if it has pitch black background, I will say it is so quiet but not black. You ask if it is very dynamic, I will say it almost knocked me off my chair listening to Belafonte. How is the bottom end and top end extension, I say it has rock-solid bottom and harp sounds wonderful with it. Is the midrange rich, warm, dense and textured, I say as warm as dense and textured as a good homemade roast beef. But a strange thing is all these descriptions and words don’t come up at all in my head when listening to this setup. I am pretty sure if you come to audition my system and I play the Coralstone/Axiom/AF1 for you with some records, I ask your comment, one of the thing you will say is the stage is so wide and deep, good layer. That is because the equipment grabs your attention and enhances that feature. In real life we listen to a performance on stage, we don’t go around saying wow good sound stage. With the 927 you know where each instruments are. If it is in the far back, you will hear it is in the far back without the sense of reminding that it is deep.
I don’t know what David means by “Beyond” and I don’t know why Airbearing is so much in love with his 927. But For me, I think this 927 setup is a super setup because it makes me go beyond thinking or get distracted of characters of these equipments, and just enjoy the music that sound natural and more realistic. You will need Airbearing or ddk who are so much more experienced than me to describe how the 927 really is. Admittedly, I couldn’t bear listening to the 927 the first two months I had it. Now it is my favorite. It is my new discovery so I feel like to write about it.
Kind regards,
Tang
This past few days, the 927 setup made me think what I have been hearing from my Kronos and AF1 setups. All three tt setups I have have different kinds of presentation and sound. The Kronos setup has tapelike clarity, resolution, snap and dynamic, a bit up front, light and medium rare (raw). The AF1 setup presents sound like the way it was built. Very attention to detail, very organized, everything is neatly placed, solid, articulate, extremely quiet, I would go so far as saying it is a tt with some hint of digital.
What does 927 sound like? It is difficult to answer. I can put vocabs into describing Kronos and Techdas because they make me “aware” of their characters. And these characters show up consistently in all records I play regardless of arm cart combos. But words, adjectives don’t seem to pop up when listening to the 927 setup I have now. You can ask if it has pitch black background, I will say it is so quiet but not black. You ask if it is very dynamic, I will say it almost knocked me off my chair listening to Belafonte. How is the bottom end and top end extension, I say it has rock-solid bottom and harp sounds wonderful with it. Is the midrange rich, warm, dense and textured, I say as warm as dense and textured as a good homemade roast beef. But a strange thing is all these descriptions and words don’t come up at all in my head when listening to this setup. I am pretty sure if you come to audition my system and I play the Coralstone/Axiom/AF1 for you with some records, I ask your comment, one of the thing you will say is the stage is so wide and deep, good layer. That is because the equipment grabs your attention and enhances that feature. In real life we listen to a performance on stage, we don’t go around saying wow good sound stage. With the 927 you know where each instruments are. If it is in the far back, you will hear it is in the far back without the sense of reminding that it is deep.
I don’t know what David means by “Beyond” and I don’t know why Airbearing is so much in love with his 927. But For me, I think this 927 setup is a super setup because it makes me go beyond thinking or get distracted of characters of these equipments, and just enjoy the music that sound natural and more realistic. You will need Airbearing or ddk who are so much more experienced than me to describe how the 927 really is. Admittedly, I couldn’t bear listening to the 927 the first two months I had it. Now it is my favorite. It is my new discovery so I feel like to write about it.
Kind regards,
Tang
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Tang, of all the tts you have, my direct rim drive Salvation is probably closest to your 927. Every time I listen to a top belt drive, I always find I dissect the sound, as you say, imaging, depth, detail retrieval, dynamics.
My tt just doesn’t draw attention to itself in any one respect, but feels/sounds so much more holistic than those belt drives.
Now these are just impressions, it’s been 5 years since I owned a belt drive (two examples over 15 years), and any belt drives I only hear at shows, stores, short demos at people’s houses.
But I feel my conclusion is reasonably accurate.
So Tang, the conclusion I draw from my rim drive, and what I infer from your take on 927, is that idler/rim provides the more realistic overall experience, closer to live, by maxxing the immersiveness, with no attention drawn to characteristics or descriptions.
Tell me if I’m talking absolute BS.
My tt just doesn’t draw attention to itself in any one respect, but feels/sounds so much more holistic than those belt drives.
Now these are just impressions, it’s been 5 years since I owned a belt drive (two examples over 15 years), and any belt drives I only hear at shows, stores, short demos at people’s houses.
But I feel my conclusion is reasonably accurate.
So Tang, the conclusion I draw from my rim drive, and what I infer from your take on 927, is that idler/rim provides the more realistic overall experience, closer to live, by maxxing the immersiveness, with no attention drawn to characteristics or descriptions.
Tell me if I’m talking absolute BS.
Basically what you surmised, these tts perform at a very different level than even your high or ultra high end gear, beyond "the system". Their "Beyond" sound quality is timeless!
david
The presentation is a distance away like sitting in a back row. Different feeling. This is the difference between Atlas SL and MSL Platinum. Tbh, the sound is less exciting than the AF1P which is like sitting in the front row having more embracing sound. The resolution and quickness of Ortofon 297 just can’t match the SAT. On vocal/jazz the EMT/ Ortofon/ AtlasSL beat them all though. Will be able to try Etna or Red Sparow on Axiom later in the month to see how they sound on the EMT and Techdas.
Tang
Thanks a lot for your help Tango. Your comment is honest and felicitous.
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That is interesting. I have not read this about the Atlas before. Does it present a more distant listening perspective on all recordings? Or is it the arm or turntable? And does the MSL/AF1P/SAT always give an up front/closer presentation? I would have thought that cartridges of this caliber would be transparent and present whatever listening perspective is on the recording as controlled by the mic position and engineering/mastering.
Could you speak a bit more about this, or am I misunderstanding what you have written?
Dear Peter,
- It does present smaller image size or more distant listening perspective on all recording. Degree does var though. By smaller or more distant I mean in comparison to Opus1 and MSL Platinum.
- Not the arm or the table. The AtlasSL has been on same arm and tt as Opus1 and MSL. No need to question if I was hearing the arm or the tt.
- The MSL and Opus1 consistently give upfront/closer presentation on AF1P and Kronos in comparison to the AtlasSL.
- I really don’t know how the recordings were made. How close the mic was or what was actually the true size. We have to give these carts to Gary Goh to try and listen to his own Anne Bisson direct to disc. The recording was a one-take, everyone on the same stage live kind of thing. He can answer us which cart has true to source size, scale and presentation.
- You thought right about transparency of carts of this caliber. The three are extremely transparent. Whether you hear its inherent transparency is really up to your arm and the rest of your gears. If you don’t find them extremely transparent, judge your arm first not the carts.
- You seem like a true to source type of listener, Peter. I really don’t know what true to source is. Is tape true to source? I used to use tape as reference. Now that I find my vinyls could sound better than tape on more and more occasions. I just don’t worry about what true to source and go for what I perceive as real and give me the suspension of disbelief. In aspect of image size, particularly in jazz, the AtlasSL is like I listen to jazz in a cafe of the Oriental Hotel or life size Sarah Vaughan standing in my room. Btw, I don’t like sitting up front closest to the stage when I go to jazz pub.
Kind regards,
Tang
