The beginning of this post has previously been covered in another thread but to recap: In the December 2022 issue of TAS Robert Harley reviewed the $350K Burmeister 159 monoblock power amplifiers by spending two days at a dealer auditioning them instead of in his home setup. Part of that time was spent with the Wilson Audio speakers he has at home and part of the time with another speaker. Based on that experience he wrote a glowing review and awarded the amps the title of Solid State Amplifier of the year. Forward to the September 2023 issue of TAS and there is a review of the $375K Burmeister BC350 Loudspeakers. Part of the way through the review Mr. Harley reveals that these speakers were auditioned during the SAME two day period and conditions as the amplifiers. The amplifiers used to drive them were not the Burmeister 159’s and the speakers used to audition the 159’s were not the Burmeister speakers in the current review. That means he spent approximately 1 day apiece to audition $725K worth of equipment. As a continuous subscriber to TAS for more than 40 years I’m surprised at the low level of effort and lack of time spent auditioning these expensive pieces of equipment for review. I certainly can’t imagine HP allowing something like this to be passed off as anything other than a Show Report. I hope this isn't a sign of where the magazine is headed.
Robert Harley makes efficient use of his time.
- Thread starter Daverich4
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I was actually encouraged by these two reviews. If you can’t assess gear in a well planned day (with appropriate help moving things from the dealer muscle), then you’re not yet ready for prime time.
All this kvetching and whining about TAS and RH has given me a new and more positive feeling about them.
YMMV
All this kvetching and whining about TAS and RH has given me a new and more positive feeling about them.
YMMV
Interesting, but why then would you require long term equipment loans?and these are not in the reviewers home?
which side of the fence are you on? seems like both...
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I have not said in any post that long term loans are important or desirable. I do think that they’re harmless.
well if one day is sufficient to make a review in your opinion why are long term loans required? I dont understand. Of course they are harmless to you its not your gear or money.
The same for me - but readers should be able to know about it somewhere in the publication or site.
Please explain to me that if in your view a review can be done in a very short time, like listed above, why someone needs a long term loan?
I understand it doesnt bother you but indulge me and explain why its required?
there are 25k views of the thread and hundreds of comments.
I would like to understand this since I dont understand it now that someone has gear for 4 years vs three days for the same result.
I don’t think any distributor should feel pressure to participate in a long term loan arrangement. Obviously you do feel such pressure. Did RH put pressure on you to leave your gear there?
I would think that there would be a limit to how many $250k to $1M speakers RH (or others) would want to have on hand. It’s not like they have a small footprint.
Burmester somehow got around this, so it must be possible.
If reviewers own all their gear, I would think there would be a tendency to question reviewer comments just based on the idea that the reviewer was trying to hold up the value of his investment.
The industry will never be organized on the level that you, or some others, would prefer.
I liked the RH assessment of your speakers. I would never buy based just on reviews. But the recommendation by someone like RH that your speaker compares favorably to others in its price range would make me want to hear a pair if I could.
I’ve been going back and forth with the CEO of a famous tube gear company today. Dealers don’t stock his full line, so a demo at the factory is my best option. I probably won’t go to the trouble. A good dealer network goes a long way toward getting exposure and increasing sales. But you know that.
I would think that there would be a limit to how many $250k to $1M speakers RH (or others) would want to have on hand. It’s not like they have a small footprint.
Burmester somehow got around this, so it must be possible.
If reviewers own all their gear, I would think there would be a tendency to question reviewer comments just based on the idea that the reviewer was trying to hold up the value of his investment.
The industry will never be organized on the level that you, or some others, would prefer.
I liked the RH assessment of your speakers. I would never buy based just on reviews. But the recommendation by someone like RH that your speaker compares favorably to others in its price range would make me want to hear a pair if I could.
I’ve been going back and forth with the CEO of a famous tube gear company today. Dealers don’t stock his full line, so a demo at the factory is my best option. I probably won’t go to the trouble. A good dealer network goes a long way toward getting exposure and increasing sales. But you know that.
no one pressured me to do anything nor can they. I am my own man .
The loan thing is a question of influence whether its obvious or its not.
Sir, Burmester got around this?, please. This isnt on them this is on the reviewer. Please either a review takes months or it takes days. Same thing big speaker or big amp versus a big speaker and a big amp at home. If I came to do a job at your home and I billed you for a months labor and before I did this you got another quote that said they could do the exact same job in three days what would think?
You are avoiding the question of why is a long term loan required if it can be done in a strange room in a day or a few days?
My thoughts are not about my speakers or anyone elses speakers, I am not angry nor disappointed I am a realist and this makes no sense to me and IMO is an undefendable position,
IMO long term loans are a form of keeping the high-end industry alive and in some sense a reward to reviewers.
Surely they will distort the equal opportunity paradigm, but such thing does not exist in the high-end.
If WBF people were really worried about it, they would create a thread to nominate ALL the factual existing long term loans. But most audiophiles love gossip but dislike factual action.
A reward to the reviewers?IMO long term loans are a form of keeping the high-end industry alive and in some sense a reward to reviewers.
Surely they will distort the equal opportunity paradigm, but such thing does not exist in the high-end.
If WBF people were really worried about it, they would create a thread to nominate ALL the factual existing long term loans. But most audiophiles love gossip but dislike factual action.
We have no control over a for profit companies actions and policies other than to react to them. As consumers we have that right and ability to purchase goods and or services from these companies.
Question - Isnt a reward a form of compensation which could then be a source of influence in your opinion?
@Elliot G. This is obviously ruining your life. Life’s too short to spend it in bitterness and anger. Pax vobiscum
Im not angry but I did ask a question which you didnt answer. Pleae dont assume you know how I feel . I dont assume anything about you Sir.
Did Robert make any caveats to explain differences in methodology or in reliability of impressions between this dealer visit and his in-home reviews?
How did Robert suggest he was isolating and understanding the sound of the component under review in the context of an unfamiliar system in an unfamiliar room?
This appears to me to be what I would call a "visit report" -- of the kind I used to do when living in London and traveling around -- and not a formal review.
Everything in the high end influences our opinions. Long term loans are just more visible than friendships or even admiration. Readers should understand and admit that. IMO the big problem with reviews is that most people want get compares and rankings from them. They should understand reviewer biases to de-convolute them from the reviews.
I’ve noticed you have accused people of not answering your rhetorical questions before. I’m not the first. You can answer these questions yourself, and anyone who would answer different from your personal answer will be drawn into a multi paragraph display of kvetching, whining, and verbal bullying.
If you’re not angry and bitter, and if you don’t feel abused by the industry, then no one is angry or bitter, and no one has ever felt abused by the industry.
My heart goes out to you. Yes, I know you don’t want my sympathy and you make no assumptions about me. That’s fine. You have my good wishes nevertheless. It a jungle out there. Best of luck with the products that you represent.
Haven't read the issue but that's what it sounds like to me. I don't consider those reviews.
As far as doing the review at the dealers he suggested that the amp was too heavy to install in his room and limited in availability. However, the amp weighs quite a bit less than the speakers that made it into his listening room and as far as not being available, if the manufacturer doesn’t have an item available for review, it’s not available for review. It’s not up to TAS to work around that. Mr. Harley made no attempt to explain how he was about to sort out what characteristics of the sound were caused by the items under review and which were from the unfamiliar ancillary equipment.
Well, it might end up being the end of an era for me but for now I still get useful information from the music reviews and even descriptions of the things heard from the music used in a review. I use Qobuz to listen to whatever musical choice was mentioned to see if I hear the same things or maybe something different. After all this time I guess being a subscriber is kind of a habit.
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