Rock and Drum videos thread
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Metallica Unforgiven, SETs + Vintage. This is WOW. For those not into metal, wait for the softer parts and the lead.
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Metallica - God (of modern equipment) that failed (to reproduce heavy metal comparable to Altec 604e (2k for the drivers today plus a wooden box 500 - 1000 euro crossover from Werner Jargush or Misho), + Marantz 300b 7w amp))
After you hear this video, the below lyrics will feel true:
Pride you took Pride you feel
Pride that you felt when you'd kneel
It feeds it grows
It clouds all that you will know
Deceit deceive
Decide just what you believe
I see faith in your eyes
Never your hear the discouraging lies
I hear faith in your cries
Broken is the promise, betrayal
Follow the god that failed
Find your peace
Find your say
After you hear this video, the below lyrics will feel true:
Pride you took Pride you feel
Pride that you felt when you'd kneel
It feeds it grows
It clouds all that you will know
Deceit deceive
Decide just what you believe
I see faith in your eyes
Never your hear the discouraging lies
I hear faith in your cries
Broken is the promise, betrayal
Follow the god that failed
Find your peace
Find your say
Radically different sound comparisons, fer sure. One sounds rather dead while the other sounds rather alive. I much prefer your system’s sound for pure enjoyment. However, if accuracy is the purpose of compiling a high-end system to listen to recordings, then both system fall perhaps equally short of the mark in their own way. Near as I can tell anyway.
The first system has that all-too-familiar in-room hi-fi sound that some-to-many apparently prefer even though it sounds like it’s being played back in a fully-stocked fully-carpeted large walk-in closet. In contrast, your system’s playback presentation sounds has volumes of listening room reverb like it’s being played in the rough equivalent of an empty 2-car garage.
As I recall, your listening room is near empty/untreated except for the tiny rug draped over the fireplace screen and a narrow carpet runner in front of your gear, your system, and hopefully a chair. And as I recall the open adjacent room off to the right is perhaps just as untreated/empty. As a result, your sound with volumes of room reverb is seemingly far more alive / live sounding. But because of volumes of in-room reverb, it’s too difficult to discern where whatever ambient info embedded in the recording that your system has kept audible drops off and the ambient info of the empty room kicks in.
As much as I enjoy your sound when compared to the other, it is still perhaps just as inaccurate as the other but in a different way. In both cases, the room is tremendously influencing what we’re hearing and is a predominant factor if not the primary factor we hear.
I always thought the goal was to make the room disappear? But based on these two videos and from a general perspective, it seems the room is what I hear most in both.
For example. Here’s your version of Stimela vs what appears to be the “official” version.
I’m curious why you wouldn’t prefer to add some basic room treatments e.g. carpeting, drapes, minimal cloth furnishing, etc. to at least allow your system the opportunity to more accurately reproduce what’s in the recording? Especially if one is a mfg’er selling product?
Regardless, when compared to some of these other videos, your videos make it pretty clear what some of these other systems are lacking in their presentations. A sense of aire, liveliness, and/or live sound.
Sure, Peter. Any particular reason why these two recordings? Why don't you share your thoughts on them and then I'll do likewise?
Yes, they sound quite different from the two you commented on. I already “liked” each one but am curious what you think. No worries if you’d rather not share your thoughts.
I don’t mind, Peter. Let’s see….
Well, both of Bonzo’s videos had sound coming out of both channels and both channels were fairly balanced so I call these two videos a big win already.
But seriously, I thought the 1st video #263 was reasonably pleasant and musical. Especially when considering the smaller speakers and seemingly larger room with all kinds of gear everywhere? It lacked a bit of warmth sounding a bit lean but given it’s configuration and close proximity in a larger room that seems understandable. The in-room recording also seemed relatively closely mic’ed as Bonzo seemed to be about 3 or 4 ft in front of the speakers most of the time so I'm sure that position helped a bit. That was perhaps a more ideal location to record than say 8 ft further back. But overall fairly pleasant with no real complaints as I’d probably place this video as one of Bonzo’s top five recordings.
The 2nd video #267 seemed harsh, shrill, shallow, congested, and/or compressed seemingly worse in some spots as if that's even possible. No doubt the engineering of the original recording was at least a bit on the inferior side. A musical playback system can or should dig deep into even some of the most inferior recordings to make them sound at least somewhat musical or at least tolerable. In the case with this system, it was more like throwing gas onto a fire. I got the impression this playback system was falling all over itself and failed miserably to bring any sense of musicality to the playback presentation and instead of making an inferior recording sound a bit more musical it seems this playback system made it sound significantly worse. Could not seem to find a single redeeming quality in either the performance, the recording nor the playback system. I suspect this level of playback would cause many a listener who cared about their ears to stand up halfway thru the track and walk briskly out of the room,
What was it about these two videos that caused you to press the “like” button?
Thanks Stehno. I found both videos open and dynamic, good on a drum video thread, not damped and congested, like so many, but the second one was thin and a bit bright. Most videos are pretty dull and boring and do not really sound natural, mine included. The best are generally Tang’s imo. And as a group, Bonzo’s horns are better than most. It’s very easy to hear Tang’s cable differences for instance. I generally agree with your comments in #273 though they are a bit too blunt and harsh.
Thats what its about in the end.
And how it sounds on " you tube " is also irrelevant to me in the end .
If it sounds good great if not , no worries , i see posting you tube vids more as entertainment/ experiment
But lets say you listen to african drums in real life in a room
Its a bit messy full of reverberation everywhere , in my case the whole room is full of sound reverberations
Imo tubes capture this better as opposed to the Mola Mola Halcro set up.
May be solid state / digital removes some of the harmonics from the sound making it sound cleaner but less life like
Thats my problem overall with the high end , to smooth to clean nice for demonstrations.
I would love to try my CAT legend with the Halcro ( have a bit of both , tubes and clean SS)
Regarding an ideal room , it would wanna do it my way meaning trapezium shaped walls / ceiling which reflect the sound over / around the listener .
Its a future thing.
I do agree with you i can get my room probably better but im no specialist and my interest is in speaker building
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Well, yes and no. What I hear from your Youtube videos easily surpasses numerous other videos but some of us much prefer listening to what's in the recording. Whereas, you're really only offering us a "pick your poison" option. From that perspective, yes, I enjoy your poison more than the alternatives.
The typical damped in-room sound that seems prevelant, yours is not. Even so, with as much excess in-room reverb you have going on to give the impression of air, liveliness, etc, you already know it's just not the same from a believability perspective or the "real" thing (ambient info in the recording). In-room ambience just is not equivalent to a recording hall's ambience embedded in a recording. Not in any way, shape, or form. Sorta'. Perhaps to some without giving it much thought, might equate the two but they are about as different as night and day. I suspect a youtube video hides some of the differences but certainly not all.
As you know, the ambient info embedded in a recording is that which was captured from the live performance in an often times very large space that absoltely dwarfs your room and its tiny acoustic boundaries. But all that is occurring in an authetic acoustic space - a recording or concert hall designed to complement live music and yet compared to that real acoustic space the ambient info generated in your room might equate to a single kitchen drawer in a mid-sized kitchen and that's what you're hearing and that's what we're hearing.
Understood. But it does seem a bit odd that you prefer to strip away the significance of accurately reproduced sound as well as our supposed pursuit to configure our playback systems (including its interface to the room) to more closely mimic the live performance.
Ok, so you choose to downplay the sound of a youtube video. But didn't I pretty much already describe how it sounds from a youtube video and to which you agreed with me from what you're hearing in-room?
So it seems we can educate ourselves a bit with these in-room videos after all. And we got to know a bit about the kind of sound you prefer? We also didn't have to read your listening biases paper first and instead went straight to the source that most closely represents what you're hearing. And surprisingly in some ways your video retained many of the sonic characteristics of the actual in-room experience. A video which happens to be quite possibly be far more telling than your words ever could. I digress, sorry.
Even though you seemingly downplay the significance of how your recordings sound via youtube, I'm guessing you actually do care about the sound of a youtube video, especially your own. If not, then what was your purpose for sharing your African drums video along side the other African drums video? I thought I read your message loud and clear. Were you not demonstrating a somewhat more live and exciting sound when compared to another video that somewhat lacked that same type of live and exciting sound?
A couple of African drums in your room isn't too unreasonable. How about we instead go with a mariachi band or maybe even a small orchestra in your room?
Messy is a good word. Don't get me wrong as your videos are among the overall nicest sounding messes around these parts for many of your videos. I for one would be very interested to hear your system in a minimally treated room.
IMO, the other African drums video was not too smooth, too clean and not a good choice for nice demonstrations. That sound seemed sorta' within the "hi-fi" sound categoy. A rather nice "hi-fi" sound but still a "hi-fi" sound. There are better choices for a "nice" demonstration.
I get that you may not wanna' really be bothered by any of this. But for those striving toward live music, it shouldn't take much to realize that your facsimile of ambient info, as nice as it is, is still a rather inferior replica of the real thing - implying the ambient info embedded in the recording but perhaps inaudible at the speaker.
Regardless, I'd still take your sound in the empty room any day over most of the others that seem to have that somewhat damped in-room sound. But again, it's difficult to discern with in-room reverb flying everywhere.
Nobody said anything about an ideal room. To the best of my knowledge, carpeting, drapes, etc is room 101 basics or minimum requirements.
Understood. But how much of a specialist must one be to tell the carpet salesman, I'll take that carpet and that pad? And that may be just enough to tame things a bit. I suspect at the level of resolution I think I hear from your videos, I'd almost bet you'll find it even more pleasing, musical, and more natural. If only because your ears may no longer be overdosing on the in-room reverb quite so much.
This is not so much having to do with the live performance we attended last week and thinking we can accurately recall it this week thing. But when people mention that our sense of hearing is so keen that it can easily and instantaneously discern a natural sound from an unnatural sound - even to the point of causing our bodies to instinctly react to the natural sound but not the unnatural, I think they're 100% right on the money. And I also suspect that when an excess of anything unnatural is added to the mix (creating a phenomena of a sound), our brains become more taxed and/or less interested when listening to significant amounts of unnatural sounds over time.
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