Rockport Orions with a subwoofer?

[Vinylshadow]

You’re not going to go wrong with either choice. To quote someone who knows “the Lyra measures better in every way but I personally like the Orion”. If you have the money you need to go listen for yourself. From mid bass up the Lyra is unparalleled in my opinion. Your love of midrange and the proximity to the speakers may nudge you to the Lyra. They have two 6 inch midranges which roll off at different frequencies which gives real presence and seamless integration to the mid band. You will love either choice.

I'm sure you're right! Listening in person would be great and maybe Rockport will be at the Capital Audiofest in November as I hope to go.
But even still, hearing it in my room with all the "warts" might be a very different experience than a show's room or store won't have to deal with.

So the Lyra has better mid bass than the Orion?

I look forward to Orion owners posting their observations. It seems that there are more Orion purchasers here than Lyra....

 

[Vinylshadow]

You’re not going to go wrong with either choice. To quote someone who knows “the Lyra measures better in every way but I personally like the Orion”. If you have the money you need to go listen for yourself. From mid bass up the Lyra is unparalleled in my opinion. Your love of midrange and the proximity to the speakers may nudge you to the Lyra. They have two 6 inch midranges which roll off at different frequencies which gives real presence and seamless integration to the mid band. You will love either choice.

I forgot to ask- Are you bi-amping your Orion?

 

[JiminGa]

I wouldn’t necessarily say better. I have heard both extensively. I spent hours at Rockports listening room with the Lyra. It’s a great speaker. The beauty of Orion is the god like execution of its simple design. It’s as far as a dynamic 3 driver 3 way can go at this point on planet earth. Very few people have had enough time with both. My guess is that of those who have there would be different opinions. I liked the Orion. The 13 inch driver is a different beast than the 2 10s. I think we sometimes spend too much time trying to calculate an absolute when we should simply enjoy what we enjoy whatever that is. They are both great. They are different. They have a similar Rockport sound. Either one will make you very happy if you’re primarily a music fan. Listen for yourself and see if Lyras added incremental resolution justifies its added price. I go back and forth on this still. What a great problem to have!

 

[Vinylshadow]

I wouldn’t necessarily say better. I have heard both extensively. I spent hours at Rockports listening room with the Lyra. It’s a great speaker. The beauty of Orion is the god like execution of its simple design. It’s as far as a dynamic 3 driver 3 way can go at this point on planet earth. Very few people have had enough time with both. My guess is that of those who have there would be different opinions. I liked the Orion. The 13 inch driver is a different beast than the 2 10s. I think we sometimes spend too much time trying to calculate an absolute when we should simply enjoy what we enjoy whatever that is. They are both great. They are different. They have a similar Rockport sound. Either one will make you very happy if you’re primarily a music fan. Listen for yourself and see if Lyras added incremental resolution justifies its added price. I go back and forth on this still. What a great problem to have!

LOL. And I will. My Mezzo's are the similar 3 driver 1"/6"/9"(front port though) with great midrange.....
I imagine bi-amping is even better sounding!
No dealers are in Florida so I may have to just read and listen to YT as much as possible until November CAF.... Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[JiminGa]

Josh and John don’t really think bi amping will help much but it might be fun to try.

 

[Vinylshadow]

Josh and John don’t really think bi amping will help much but it might be fun to try.

Josh told me that bi-amping is more about amp power supply and overall noise performance as it is ultimate power. That it's not necessary to biamp to get great performance and dynamic power but it can be a great way to go with certain amps.....He doesn't biamp in the factory and prefers 1 really good amp..
I've heard that active was always the way to go but in this case, it's not 100% active(except to the woofers). But if it lowered the noise floor having 4 mono amps, and maybe gave more power for transient spikes, it seems like that would be a good move to consider.

 

[JiminGa]

All true but the question is how much do you gain and at what cost? I would personally put the money elsewhere where it would make a bigger difference like source or your room or even a great preamp. If you’ve got all that covered have at it. Sounds like a fun endeavor. Let me know how it goes!

 

[VPN]

I have a pair of Rockport Orion's on order and should receive them in the fall. I also have a pair of marvelous B&W DB1 subwoofers in my current set up which includes B&W 802D2 speakers. Does anyone have Orion's and use them with subwoofers? If so, what cross over frequency for the subs do you use?

Thanks
Eric

Congrats on your purchase of the Orion! I have heard the Orion with and without subwoofers, in the same room/system, and I much prefer with subwoofers. I would not consider having a pair of Orion with without subwoofers. The same way I would not consider having a pair of Lyras without subwoofers. Even thought the Orion are great speakers, they simply don't go low enough, you would miss part of the music.

Subwoofers that I suggest you consider: 2x Gobel Divin Sovereign, 2x Perlisten D215S, 2x Rel 32

 

[Cincy2]

As you state VPN, the use of a subwoofer with these speakers is very much a personal choice. For the music I enjoy and the acoustics of my room, the Orion bass drivers are more than adequate. There are no absolutes in this hobby. Everyone is free to indulge their preferences.

Cincy

 

[Vinylshadow]

As you state VPN, the use of a subwoofer with these speakers is very much a personal choice. For the music I enjoy and the acoustics of my room, the Orion bass drivers are more than adequate. There are no absolutes in this hobby. Everyone is free to indulge their preferences.

Cincy

I don't know which is "right" but it's interesting that Josh, and RP, recommend NOT using subs with the Orion's or Lyra's. Both go down to 20Hz. But I reckon' it's a question of room response.

 

[VPN]

I don't know which is "right" but it's interesting that Josh, and RP, recommend NOT using subs with the Orion's or Lyra's. Both go down to 20Hz. But I reckon' it's a question of room response.

People (a) put different weights in the several sonic attributes, and (b) listen to different music. I talked with Josh and know he prefers without subwoofers, but this his view/preference.

I, for example, prefer the Rockport Arrakis vs. Rockport Lyra. In my view, the Lyra has more detail, the Arrakis has more body, dynamics and extension. Josh says he prefers the Lyra.

So, clearly, the need for subwoofers is a personal preference. Ideally each person should listen with and without, well integrated, high quality, subwoofers in their system/room and decide.

 

[John T]

Every room is different. My room is 30' X 26' X 26H (9x12 pitch A-Frame) with an open loft. I can assure anyone that can hear, this room benefits by subwoofer addition. I've talked with Josh several times regarding Lyras. Not one shoe fits all...

 

[LL21]

I have spoken with Andy and Josh years ago (once) about the Arrakis vs Lyra, and I think after quite a lot of discussion about 'scale' and 'power', Andy did say that on absolute air displacement the Arrakis wins. We then moved the discussion to subs alongside the Lyras, and they did say it can be done, custom designed for the Lyras...and I suspected from how they were discussing it at initial level, anything they designed for the Lyras would be absolutely phenomenal if we went that direction. Ultimately, I did not go that direction, but sure would have been fun!

 

[sujay]

My experience with subs has been a bit mixed. For over 8 years I used a pair of the REL G1with my Rockport Aviors….loved them and what they brought to the party in terms of increased stage width, depth and openness. The difference is not subtle. Even hardcore audiophile friends who were against subs couldn’t deny the improvements.
However, strangely, when I sold my G1s and let the Aviors play by themselves, the coherence and imaging improved…….or that’s what I felt. I currently have the Marten Parker Trio without subs and I quite enjoy them the way they are without feeling any need for subs. But one never knows…….i might go down that path again. The one downside to having subs is the real estate they consume. So not for people with small places.

 

[LL21]

Hi Sujay,

In many respects, your comments do not surprise me. Yes, there are undoubtedly setups where one 'can get it all'...but generally rooms, systems, and intricate setups are tough at the best of times...and I do think that if one takes away the sub, one should probably hear more elsewhere in a recording.

The questions to my mind are:
- which way do I prefer it? Personally, not being a huge detail or soundstaging person...but definitely being a propulsive, powerful bass person, I prefer the bass. That's just me, and I admit it.

- However, in some cases, I would also ask: are we 100% sure that hearing that detail or improved imaging is correct over and above the bass? For example, if one removes the mids, it probably is easier to hear the triangle and the piccolo in the background...because there is less of the midrange to block them out. But is that right?

My gut tells me that when a kick drum is really vibrating the air around you and compressing your chest up close...it actually does mean one is going to hear less of other parts of the band. The key (for me personally...it is a taste thing)...is that I am hearing a full dynamic range impression of the band which is what I really enjoy...more so than always hearing the nuances in the guitarist's fingering for example which can be obscured.

Interesting, when the bass is really right, i actually have found it enhances the mids...something which I do not understand but have experienced many times before.

Overall, prefer to have the sub...even if dialed in quite low underneath the main. But again, that's just me and I admit it.

 

[John T]

3 weeks ago I had EMM LABS distributer John McGurk here for a visit. It was the first time he heard a 6 pack array. He was amazed at how well they blended into the system. If I am ever fortunate enough to get a pair of Lyras I'm not sure how I would approach the subwoofer aspect? One pair of 32's, try the array, 4 Carbon Specials, I'm really not really sure how it would work out. I do know it would be a lot of fun figuring out what works best...

 

[VPN]

I have a pair of Rockport Orion's on order and should receive them in the fall. I also have a pair of marvelous B&W DB1 subwoofers in my current set up which includes B&W 802D2 speakers. Does anyone have Orion's and use them with subwoofers? If so, what cross over frequency for the subs do you use?

Thanks
Eric

Hello Eric,

Wonderful system! Congratulations!

When you have a chance, I suggest you try in your system a Taiko Olympus with a XDMI - Pro ISL card. It should sound amasing with your MSB Cascade and the rest of your system!

MSB and Taiko, let's go!

@Taiko Audio Hey Emile! My Olympus arrived today, as noted elsewhere, but can I shake the tree for an update on the MSB board? Is it soup yet? Cheers from Rochester... Very very soon!

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[Cincy2]

Hello Eric,

Wonderful system! Congratulations!

When you have a chance, I suggest you try in your system a Taiko Olympus with a XDMI - Pro ISL card. It should sound amasing with your MSB Cascade and the rest of your system!

MSB and Taiko, let's go!

@Taiko Audio Hey Emile! My Olympus arrived today, as noted elsewhere, but can I shake the tree for an update on the MSB board? Is it soup yet? Cheers from Rochester... Very very soon!

www.whatsbestforum.com

Hello,

My system has evolved quite a bit since the original post. I received the Rockports and was very satisfied with the bass in my room so no subwoofers. I chose a PinkFaun dual Ultra for the server. It arrives in a week or so. I will use the Cascade's ProISL interface.

Thanks for your kind words.
Eric

 

[LL21]

3 weeks ago I had EMM LABS distributer John McGurk here for a visit. It was the first time he heard a 6 pack array. He was amazed at how well they blended into the system. If I am ever fortunate enough to get a pair of Lyras I'm not sure how I would approach the subwoofer aspect? One pair of 32's, try the array, 4 Carbon Specials, I'm really not really sure how it would work out. I do know it would be a lot of fun figuring out what works best...

Given the fact that Arnie (of Arrakis, REL 6-pack fame) found that set to 24hz or 27hz, the 6-pack was a big plus for his Arrakis, I think it is safe to say if you like what the 6-pack is doing for you now...then you owe it yourself to start with the full 6-pack if you ever drop in the Lyras.

 

[sbo6]

Given the fact that Arnie (of Arrakis, REL 6-pack fame) found that set to 24hz or 27hz, the 6-pack was a big plus for his Arrakis, I think it is safe to say if you like what the 6-pack is doing for you now...then you owe it yourself to start with the full 6-pack if you ever drop in the Lyras.

IMO and IME it very much depends on your room size / dimensions and speaker type. The Arrakis' woofers, if memory serves act almost as subs, I think they cross around 100Hz. Also, Arnie's room was quite large so placement was not as critical as in most rooms with room modes. Putting subs right next to woofers in mains in most rooms is not the most ideal positioning as you're exacerbating the woofers' bass from essentially the same location.