Ron’s New System

[Ron Resnick]

I had been looking forward to seeing your new measurements of your system after the introduction of additional room panels and those attenuation devices

I am planning to re-run the frequency response test after the new custom ASC TubeTraps are installed. But my test last week on the AVAAs suggests that the sonic effect of the AVAAs is not observable on a simple frequency response chart.

plus videos demonstrating the sonic benefits

I think the videos can demonstrate change in tonal balance.

If tape is now your preferred source, why not put the tape player on your new rack?

The A820 is integrated with its own rolling cart, so it is free-standing.

 

[DasguteOhr]

This differs for cones and planars. Lesser sensitivity planars can sound louder than cones. A 2m ribbon will play same at 1m as same sensitivity cone but could play much louder at 4m compared to a cone tweeter as it does not drop as much with distance.

The difference between the loudspeaker principles is less than if a room is treated acoustically or not, there is-+5-6 dB sound pressure at the listening position. the problem with room acoustics treatment is that it doesn't work evenly from 20hz to 20khz. you fight a problem and get a new one in another area. often less is more

 

[bonzo75]

Ron, you started one of the longest, rambling, non progressing, repetitive threads about system videos, or "acoustically coupled" videos as you call them.

fixed

 

[Al M.]

The difference between the loudspeaker principles is less than if a room is treated acoustically or not, there is-+5-6 dB sound pressure at the listening position. the problem with room acoustics treatment is that it doesn't work evenly from 20hz to 20khz. you fight a problem and get a new one in another area. often less is more

Sure, you have to know what you are doing. But your argument should not be one against room treatment at all. All foods or food chemicals are poison in too large quantities, but this doesn't mean you should avoid food at all. You'll die if you do.

 

[bonzo75]

All foods or food chemicals are poison in too large quantities, but this doesn't mean you should avoid food at all. You'll die if you do.

Then you should have DRC too.

I think the analogy is more given organic food vs ultra processed food, you should have organic (here food is sound, not the DRC or the treatment material itself)

 

[Folsom]

"Slow"

K... no way to know if it includes reflections or not.

 

[Al M.]

Then you should have DRC too.

Except, you don't need DRC if you are well versed in acoustic room treatment and loudspeaker positioning. Having adjustable speakers helps, too.

Some subs have DRC built in, which can be useful when activated, but that's limited to bass and doesn't damage the all-important analog signal in midrange and treble, which remains unprocessed. Unless you have a digital crossover for the subs too, which affects the whole signal chain.

Similar holds for active bass traps like AVAA, which basically are subwoofers in reverse phase to cancel out bass signal, which also use DRC -- but that affects just the bass as well.

Do some rooms require DRC in extreme cases? Maybe. But in general (ducking for cover) I consider DRC through the entire signal path the miracle cure (well, it isn't) for lazy people.

 

[Folsom]

Oh, I'm sure my friends are better at hearing than I am! I I am very good only on tonal balance and on channel balance.

What I mean is that there is no way 60 watts or 120 watts of anything is going to untangle and separate and delineate the mass of instruments in complex symphony orchestra classical music the way 750 watts can. 60 watts or 120 watts simply is not going to have the headroom to scale effortlessly.

Meh. Your speakers probably compress dynamics before you get 117db anyways (750w is capable of about 117db). 60w is about 107db, and 120w is 110db.

The wattage has nothing to do with separation and delineation of the instruments unless the sound is becoming severely compressed because you're listening at 105db+. Crests will simply not be as loud and possibly completely unnoticed.

Headroom mostly makes up for other problems that are unrelated to the watts themselves. Poor PSU design, poor power conditioners, etc.

Basically I think you're dead wrong. There's way too many counter examples anecdotally to even consider what you say.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Meh. Your speakers probably compress dynamics before you get 117db anyways (750w is capable of about 117db). 60w is about 107db, and 120w is 110db.

The wattage has nothing to do with separation and delineation of the instruments unless the sound is becoming severely compressed because you're listening at 105db+. Crests will simply not be as loud and possibly completely unnoticed.

Headroom mostly makes up for other problems that are unrelated to the watts themselves. Poor PSU design, poor power conditioners, etc.

Basically I think you're dead wrong. There's way too many counter examples anecdotally to even consider what you say.

Are you suggesting there are no sonic downsides on any kind of music from switching from 750 watts to 60 watts?

 

[Folsom]

Are you suggesting there are no sonic downsides on any kind of music from switching from 750 watts to 60 watts?

It's dependent on the equipment choice not the watts here. The ribbons used on your speakers aren't that hard to drive. Don't forget they're 6ohm.

But realistically I'd rather listen on 16-20w of good quality than any number of lesser quality higher watts (subjective quality). At very loud levels wattage that low will probably give out on dynamic passage parts but of course it depends tube/SS towards whether you notice it or not to a large degree. But at 60-120w of tube I doubt you'd ever hear anything until you pushed it considerably louder than you actually enjoy. Your room is a bit bigger so doing towards flea watts is certainly limited to some degree.

I have an idea. Why not try playing something you know has a super high crest factor and see if you can even perceive the loudness? Listen to Rickie Lee Jones: Ghetto Of My Mind. It has a 20db swing. Her self title album somewhere in it has maybe the highest digital crest factor moment in all of digital history (drum, forget what part though). See if you even notice them. That'll tell you more about watts vs quality of gear presenting things properly.

 

[Folsom]

If you had Wilsons/Magico this wouldn't be the same story. Large less efficient crossovers and fullrange without self powered bass would be different. The amount of thermal and electrical loss in those is way different. You have almost none.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The Tonearms Arrive!

 

[morricab]

Are you suggesting there are no sonic downsides on any kind of music from switching from 750 watts to 60 watts?

I told you similar a couple years ago. I promise that 65 watt Concero monos would drive your speakers without problem and with the quality you haven’t heard with the big VTLs. Complex music is not a problem. What are your peak listening levels? Do you ever get over 100dB?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I told you similar a couple years ago. I promise that 65 watt Concero monos would drive your speakers without problem and with the quality you haven’t heard with the big VTLs. Complex music is not a problem. What are your peak listening levels? Do you ever get over 100dB?

My peak listening level is 95dB.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I promise that 65 watt Concero monos would drive your speakers without problem and with the quality you haven’t heard with the big VTLs.

If this is true of the Concero monos, wouldn't this also be true of the Absolare SET?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Is the main difference between the 65 watt Concero and the 65 watt Exsequor Reference MKII that the Exsequor has an outboard power supply?

 

[morricab]

If this is true of the Concero monos, wouldn't this also be true of the Absolare SET?

Not necessarily

 

[Argonaut]

Is the main difference between the 65 watt Concero and the 65 watt Exsequor Reference MKII that the Exsequor has an outboard power supply?

Ron …. 65 Watt Concero Signature and Signature LE are both two chassis mono amplifiers …. separate power and output stage … you do not have to extend to Exsequor level for this !

 

[Folsom]

My peak listening level is 95dB.

With room and distance loss that isn't even pushing over 16w.

I would think the ability to play around with amplifiers would be sort of exciting since there is a lot of things out there that won't break the bank but can deliver.

 

[Ron Resnick]

With room and distance loss that isn't even pushing over 16w.

But aren't you talking RMS, rather than peak? Peak could be multiples of RMS.