Ron’s New System

[Ron Resnick]

300b could get 94-95db or so at your preferred listening position from the ribbon alone, subject to experimentation.

I routinely listen at 95dB peak SPL. As a matter of philosophy and policy I just don't believe in bumping up against the ceiling of the maximum capability of an amplifier.

KeithR is correct to remind us that my Bill Henderson's "Send in the Clowns" has a colossal SPL peak when he raises his voice mid-song. Keith remember seeing 35 watts on the meter of his ARC REF 75 on DeVore Gibbons X.

 

[cjfrbw]

If you are stuck on the power paradigm, then I guess that is that. I have always found it helpful to explore several alternatives, and the results in listening aren't always the ones you would expect.

None of this has to be permanent, seldom is, look at all the turnover from the guys around here. That's why field testing and borrowing can be useful.

 

[Ron Resnick]

If you are stuck on the power paradigm, then I guess that is that. I have always found it helpful to explore several alternatives, and the results in listening aren't always the ones you would expect.

I agree. That is why I am considering amps which are 1/8th and even 1/16th the output of my current amps.

None of this has to be permanent, seldom is, look at all the turnover from the guys around here.

I am not a box-swapper, however. I even have trouble buying something as an experiment if I know that it could not at least possibly be my final solution.

I was extremely close to buying a mint condition local pair of Jadis JA100s just to get a sense of that power level on the Pendragons. But I have my heart set on SET/PSET, and not push-pull, for my alternative "fantasy" amp project.

So knowing that I very likely would not keep the JA100s makes me reluctant to take them on.

Maybe I still should buy these just for the original reason of checking out the general power level?

 

[cjfrbw]

Can't you just find somebody who could lend you a variety of amps? Or even lend lease without obligation, since the experience would be worth a bit of expended cash trying it out in your own system? That is the most informative to listening to a bunch of guys slinging opinions. Don't your listening panel guys have a few 25 to 50 watters they could bring over for a session?

You have some clout and it is hard to believe you couldn't manage that.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Yes, one friend is going to bring over JA30s.

 

[cjfrbw]

Praise the audio gods and pass the plate. Educate us on the results.

 

[Lee]

View attachment 100463



View attachment 100464

Brian Berdan, the beloved proprietor of Audio Element in Pasadena, California, and his colleague, Ian, delivered my used VTL Siegfried IIs, with a new set of KT-88s, and my new current production VTL TL-7.5 Series III, to the listening room and the equipment room, respectively, last night. We think it makes sense to keep everything wrapped and safe for the time being until the loudspeaker crates arrive, and the speakers are erected.

Brian displayed nearly infinite patience and grace by storing my amplifiers for years after I told him originally it would be a matter of months.

Audio Element’s great brands include AMG, Boulder, Cardas, Clearaudio, D’Agostino, dCS, Grand Prix, Koetsu, Lyra, Transparent, Tri-Planar, VTL and Wilson Audio.

In this age of digital Brian and Ian still mostly sell analog playback systems. They have developed a series of turn-key, modestly-priced, entry-level systems for young music-lovers seeking better sound.

If you find yourself in Southern California you must meet Brian, who has been a titan in the industry, both as a respected dealer, and as a set-up expert, for many, many years.

Brian Berdan
Audio Element
117 East Union St.
Pasadena, CA 91103
sales@audio-element.com
(626) 793-7229

I hear great things about this dealer!

 

[Ron Resnick]

I hear great things about this dealer!

Brian is wonderful!

 

[Ron Resnick]

To raise money for the SET amp project I've decided to sell my rare collection of sealed Madonna LPs. Anybody interested in buying some copies of the Who's That Girl soundtrack?

A rare 12" 45rpm English pressing of "Into the Groove"?

 

[DasguteOhr]

I routinely listen at 95dB peak SPL. As a matter of philosophy and policy I just don't believe in bumping up against the ceiling of the maximum capability of an amplifier.

KeithR is correct to remind us that my Bill Henderson's "Send in the Clowns" has a colossal SPL peak when he raises his voice mid-song. Keith remember seeing 35 watts on the meter of his ARC REF 75 on DeVore Gibbons X.

Exsample
Sensitivity sound pressure in dB at 1 watt and 1 m 89 dB/W/m
Amplifier power per speaker 60 watt
Number of speakers pieces 2
Distance to the speakers meters 4.0> Produced sound pressure level dB 97.9 max
can be calculated here
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/Rechner-wirkungsgrad.htm

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

What were you wearing when you wrote this Leif …Eeeek

Was a comment to bonzo75s #2627 Leif has heard more………

 

[bonzo75]

Don twisted my arm yesterday to perform this comparison. I told him I wasn't in the mood, but he would not take no for an answer.

So last night I compared Jeff Buckley's "Hallelujah" back and forth and back. I could not discern any difference on that one track.

With the turntable in a separate equipment room, I think it is much less susceptible to acoustic vibration than it would be if it were located in the listening room.

can you then, as forum coowner, for the sake of the forum, do the comparison of Denon on and off the table by bringing it to the main room and placing it close to the speakers?

 

[bonzo75]

Exsample
Sensitivity sound pressure in dB at 1 watt and 1 m 89 dB/W/m
Amplifier power per speaker 60 watt
Number of speakers pieces 2
Distance to the speakers meters 4.0> Produced sound pressure level dB 97.9 max
can be calculated here
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/Rechner-wirkungsgrad.htm

This differs for cones and planars. Lesser sensitivity planars can sound louder than cones. A 2m ribbon will play same at 1m as same sensitivity cone but could play much louder at 4m compared to a cone tweeter as it does not drop as much with distance.

 

[bonzo75]

To raise money for the SET amp project I've decided to sell my rare collection of sealed Madonna LPs. Anybody interested in buying some copies of the Who's That Girl soundtrack?

You are being a material guy.

 

[Ron Resnick]

can you then, as forum coowner, for the sake of the forum, do the comparison of Denon on and off the table by bringing it to the main room and placing it close to the speakers?

On and off which table? The new Peter Noerbaek table? Or the outdoor patio side table the Denon has been sitting on since it's arrival?

But, no, because I'm not going to disconnect the Io and the VTL preamp and move them to the listening room.

With the turntable in front of the speakers I would not be surprised if I can hear a difference with and without some isolation device under the turntable. The self-powered woofer towers are a bit like the audio equivalent of a MLRS.

I believe that nothing good comes from soaking a vibrational device like a cartridge in a sea of acoustic vibration.

 

[bonzo75]

On and off which table? The new Peter Noerbaek table? Or the outdoor patio side table the Denon has been sitting on since it's arrival?

Move it from outdoor patio table to PBN table and do videos.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Move it from outdoor patio table to PBN table and do videos.

I'm kind of over the videos. With the turntable in the adjacent room there's no way videos will reveal any differences.

 

[bonzo75]

I'm kind of over the videos. With the turntable in the adjacent room there's no way videos will reveal any differences.

You barely started. You haven’t even got your process, tracks, etc right. Anyway, hope you are over commenting on them as well

 

[Mike Lavigne]

On and off which table? The new Peter Noerbaek table? Or the outdoor patio side table the Denon has been sitting on since it's arrival?

But, no, because I'm not going to disconnect the Io and the VTL preamp and move them to the listening room.

With the turntable in front of the speakers I would not be surprised if I can hear a difference with and without some isolation device under the turntable. The self-powered woofer towers are a bit like the audio equivalent of a MLRS.

I believe that nothing good comes from soaking a vibrational device like a cartridge in a sea of acoustic vibration.

another method is have it in the main room and listen to the speakers, then just headphones, to remove room acoustic feedback from the result. then you are getting the benefit of the shorter cables, which is not nothing. plus the savings of an expensive longer cable, plus proximity for more ease/flow of listening. it does add clutter to the listening room, which is a personal taste question.....not a performance or listening simplicity thing.

in my room when i've done that i get zero audible difference.

system logistics planning is one thing in the theory of it, but when you are listening for extended periods of time then the little things about easy and low stress changing from one piece of music to the next become much more important. especially if you are often a one track listener, and not playing whole sides.

i do not expect you to change anything, as you have made your priorities clear. but i felt it was worth mentioning again, now that you have been in your room for 6 months living with the separate gear room thing.

 

[PeterA]

I'm kind of over the videos. With the turntable in the adjacent room there's no way videos will reveal any differences.

Ron, you started one of the longest threads about system videos, or "acoustically coupled" videos as you call them.

I had been looking forward to seeing your new measurements of your system after the introduction of additional room panels and those attenuation devices, plus videos demonstrating the sonic benefits. Will you be making and sharing those to complete what you started? Are you hearing benefits?

If tape is now your preferred source, why not put the tape player on your new rack?