Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
The back wall and rear right corner are all glass. I do not know if there is treatment over them or if it is effective. It may have to do with the distant of listeners head to the glass back wall.
Needs randomly strewn planks
Not randomly strewn, carefully located, but yes, that might help, depending on type and dimensions of wood.
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A friend, or someone, told me this song was recorded in a garage.
I do not know why we are discussing videos that the author clearly thinks no longer sound anything like what he hears in the room. The one utility Ron claims is still valid with such videos is changing one variable and then comparing. Well here, at least two variables have been changed, the room treatments and the amps. What are we to make of that?
Since people are commenting, I will add these observations: The two videos sound completely different. Not like what Ron hears, and not like each other. To me, the first sounds more alive, like it was recorded in a garage with bad acoustics. Big open sound, immediate and with energy. It sounds like a pop girl with guitar in a space. The second, with all of those panels and Jadis has lost any semblance of music and girl with guitar. Wet blanket and dull. The guitar is really really strange. I agree with others about the lost information in the second video. But there is more going on. The information is not just sucked out, he tone is corrupted and sounds really fake. Not at all pleasing to me.
The first, would probably be overwhelming and fatiguing in room after a few minutes. I have heard this song, perhaps different mastering, at a friend's house on vinyl, and it did sound somewhere between the two of these videos. Pleasant but not really natural.
But again, I do not really understand why Ron posted these. He should ignore all comments as useless content because they are based on what he considers a completely false premise, that videos are representative of the sound of a highend system in room. I am surprised he made the effort to create and post them. Both positive and negative comments should have no real value to him.
It would be interesting to see if Ron will comment about which video he thinks sounds more like what he hears in the room.
EDIT: What should be done is that the room treatments should be adjusted so that they are the exact same, including that active cancellator, so that viewers can make an assessment on just the two amp alternatives, or, same amp and different room treatments. Perhaps all four iterations plus supplementary comments from Ron about what he actually hears. That is how we can learn. But, if the premise is that all videos are basically useless, why bother?
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Presently the output tubes are Electro Harmonix KT90s.
I am going to try NOS Siemens EL34s.
Thank you for all comments.
Yes, there are two variables here, but I consider the acoustic panels on the front wall to be comparatively trivial. The main variable here for me is the amplifiers.
The large glass walls at the rear of the listening room are covered with Hunter Douglas Duette double-pleated fabric shades. These have an acoustic property similar to very thin absorption panels.
Peter's report that the videos sound radically different to him is utterly baffling to me. ("Overwhelming and fatiguing" like in the "garage with bad acoustics" versus "lost any semblance of music and girl with guitar. Wet blanket and dull. The guitar is really really strange" "tone is corrupted and sounds really fake")
Yes, there are two variables here, but I consider the acoustic panels on the front wall to be comparatively trivial. The main variable here for me is the amplifiers.
The large glass walls at the rear of the listening room are covered with Hunter Douglas Duette double-pleated fabric shades. These have an acoustic property similar to very thin absorption panels.
Peter's report that the videos sound radically different to him is utterly baffling to me. ("Overwhelming and fatiguing" like in the "garage with bad acoustics" versus "lost any semblance of music and girl with guitar. Wet blanket and dull. The guitar is really really strange" "tone is corrupted and sounds really fake")
And nothing I have heard in Ron's room in person sounds that reverb-y. His room is very well behaved in terms of decay time, not too dry, not too "wet". Not once I thought, gee, this needs improvement; I felt completely comfortable in that acoustics.
I hear that bath-tubby reverb effect on tons of videos (also using headphones as you do). I have no technical explanation why many phone recordings would do that, but it occurs very often, even though not all the time. Another reason why I think system videos are mostly inadequate *).
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*) wow, I have restrained myself with that adjective
, had a word beginning with "ga" and ending in "e" in mind
Brad and Kedar are reporting correctly what I hear as the differences in the room between the two playbacks:
Brad: "The Jadis is quite a bit softer and warmer sounding." I think it does trade off a bit of resolution for a more "pleasing" listen
Kedar: "The video on top sounds harder, clearer, and I can hear more how she is singing with more fluctuation in the voice.
"The video at the bottom not have the hardness and no stand out thing, balanced, but keeping out info"
These comments track the differences I am hearing in the room between the amplifiers.
Brad: "The Jadis is quite a bit softer and warmer sounding." I think it does trade off a bit of resolution for a more "pleasing" listen
Kedar: "The video on top sounds harder, clearer, and I can hear more how she is singing with more fluctuation in the voice.
"The video at the bottom not have the hardness and no stand out thing, balanced, but keeping out info"
These comments track the differences I am hearing in the room between the amplifiers.
Personally I don’t think Al would have heard this in person either. Maybe it’s him and not the videos?
I am happy with the crudely measured RT in the room.
The interesting question for me is would moving to JA200s Mk. II increase or decrease the softening? Bring back some of the resolution and information? Reduce the softening and richness? Increase transparency or increase fuzziness?
Decrease softening, increase resolution, increase richness
Transparency not sure
I had Jadis JA 400 bal
Transparency not sure
I had Jadis JA 400 bal
A few things...
1. Ron is still on the temp turntable and the platter interface makes things sound duller. When he moves to his final TT and arm it's going to bring a lot more to the picture, where as the VTL would be pushed further from what he likes.
2. I will encourage Ron to de-tune a few things with these and see what they're like... Yank the front acoustic panels. Grab some lower capacitance Mogami's RCA to try, Swap the speaker cables to some plain tinned copper instead of silver, throw in some bone stock power cables, then see what it sounds like. The current specs are unknown on RCA's and may be making it softer than the Belden does for the XLR on VTL. The speaker cables throw in a weird element and weren't recommended by manufacturer for panels. The Cardas cable is a wild card that can choke anything (literally, it has a choke in it without resonance control), and iconclast is unknown. The panels were there to tame the high end which isn't needed anymore. My suggestions to try are almost entirely free except the RCA's you probably have on order and the like sub $50 for speaker wire. Consider just how much of these things was in place to try and get closer to what he likes with the Jadis, but when using VTL. I think the Jadis sound way less HiFi but the HiFi tweaks and TT mat in particular are not letting you see the whole picture.
3. The people that think it sounds like an airport hanger are delusional.
1. Ron is still on the temp turntable and the platter interface makes things sound duller. When he moves to his final TT and arm it's going to bring a lot more to the picture, where as the VTL would be pushed further from what he likes.
2. I will encourage Ron to de-tune a few things with these and see what they're like... Yank the front acoustic panels. Grab some lower capacitance Mogami's RCA to try, Swap the speaker cables to some plain tinned copper instead of silver, throw in some bone stock power cables, then see what it sounds like. The current specs are unknown on RCA's and may be making it softer than the Belden does for the XLR on VTL. The speaker cables throw in a weird element and weren't recommended by manufacturer for panels. The Cardas cable is a wild card that can choke anything (literally, it has a choke in it without resonance control), and iconclast is unknown. The panels were there to tame the high end which isn't needed anymore. My suggestions to try are almost entirely free except the RCA's you probably have on order and the like sub $50 for speaker wire. Consider just how much of these things was in place to try and get closer to what he likes with the Jadis, but when using VTL. I think the Jadis sound way less HiFi but the HiFi tweaks and TT mat in particular are not letting you see the whole picture.
3. The people that think it sounds like an airport hanger are delusional.
Delusional is a compliment in this context
I was trying to make a point about the acoustics and still recommend the woodblock trick
And if R records it, even better
I was trying to make a point about the acoustics and still recommend the woodblock trick
And if R records it, even better
Hi Ron,
You may have fun playing around with these easy calculators to double check reflection points etc. the ceiling point is often interesting. Also side wall distance I found revealing in my room.https://www.acoustic.ua/recommendations/800
I agree with Brad and Ked’s observations but wanted to add more. To me the videos sound very different especially tone of the guitar. Dynamics and immediacy are also quite different. If the acoustic panels were consistent between the two videos, we could confirm differences are between the amplifiers.
What I find interesting is that people‘s comments on Ron‘s videos changed his mind about the utility of videos and I thought the issue was done. But here we are a day later. Ron posts two new videos with multiple variable differences and we are commenting on what we hear from the videos and Ron is confirming that Brad and Bonzo heard what he hears in the room and he is paying attention to what people are commenting on the videos.
Either Ron thinks the videos can be used to promote discussion on how the two videos sound or they cannot. Regardless, the comments seem to be influencing next steps.