Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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Ron, do you think one video is more representative of what you hear in the room or are they both equally representative? I presume you think Brad and Kedar are sincere in their comments based on what they hear from the videos.
although at times it seems like that, I do not think Ron would repeat that fiasco based on peoples reactions the last time.
Carlos is locked out of the house waiting for the door to be unlocked. The question is whether or not he will move to a different house.
I would be quite interested in reading his comments on these two latest videos.
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I have said very consistently that with only one variable, one change, the videos can have some value. Yes, Sherlock, in this particular case there is a second variable -- the presence and absence of the thin acoustic panels. I consider them to be a trivial difference.
In my own experiments I can barely hear the effect of the thin panels on the front wall. It has the effect of taking a little bit of edge off the 4 to 5 kHz range. This leaves, in my view, only one primary variable -- the amps swap.
Yes, from your point of you having the panels is a second variable, which in your view apparently makes me dishonest or disingenuous or something, but I think that in this particular case the second variable is relatively trivial. I respect your view that the second variable of the thin acoustic panels is a monumental and dramatic violation of my own personal "only one variable" videos rule.
Technically, you are correct. I said only one change, and here I am posting videos with two changes. Practically I don't think it matters materially in this particular case. I think the differences in the sounds of the amps overwhelms the presence or absence of the thin absorption panels on the front wall.
Honestly, I forgot that the first video was made without the thin absorption panels, and I recorded the video last night with Jadis without realizing the first "Fields of Gold" video was made without the acoustic panels.
So ankle-biting is okay as long as you're the one doing the biting?
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If we're being technical I should point out other variables:
Single-ended interconnects on the Jadis versus balanced on the VTLs
Radically different woofer level to account for approximately 6dB drop on RCA side
Balanced interconnects are Belden 1192A
Temporary RCA interconnects are Gotham from Amazon.com
again, I think these other variables are trivial compared to the difference in amplifiers.
Single-ended interconnects on the Jadis versus balanced on the VTLs
Radically different woofer level to account for approximately 6dB drop on RCA side
Balanced interconnects are Belden 1192A
Temporary RCA interconnects are Gotham from Amazon.com
again, I think these other variables are trivial compared to the difference in amplifiers.
Star quad?
They give specs, they are a little bit high in C with the shields. But not as high as they could have been.
Ron, You never called me a name before. That is out of your character.
It seems like there are many variable changes. That is fine. If you say the amps make the biggest difference, I believe you. I hear big differences between the videos. You say now they convey enough for Brad and Ked to have an accurate conclusion of the sound of the system through videos. Their comments are consistent with what you hear in the room, and it seems the videos convey what you hear in the room.
I moved two chairs a few feet and changed the angle of the wood slats over one window and it was clearly audible to some friends who heard these changes on a video. They described the exact sonic differences I heard in the room with the changes. I think our respective experiences support the utility of videos.
You posted them, so I presume you wanted comments.
I wonder what Al makes of your confirmation now that others hear from the videos what you hear in room.
And:
Why are you still stubbornly and consistently misrepresenting both Ron's and my views on videos, Peter, and based on that misrepresentation shouting victory from time to time?
Our position over the years consistently has been that as an absolute measure of sound videos do not work, but that for relative comparisons they can have some (limited) usefulness. It is not that all video per se is useless. What is so hard to understand?
Do you stubbornly continue your misrepresentation either because you simply cannot understand, or because you want to do so on purpose? Either option is not exactly a good look. So please drop it.
Ron clearly repeated yesterday his stance that in terms of absolute measure, to get an impression of the actual sound of the system, videos are misleading ((post #2852, thread page 143):
"As a way to understand the sound of a system in a room in which you have not been present I think videos generate more confusion and heat than understanding and light."
Yet consistent with what he said over the years, today he posted a relative video comparison of two amplifiers from which some usefulness can be gleaned. Again, what is so hard to understand?
My earlier comment today about the bath-tubby nature of the sound of many phone videos, following a comment about Ron's room acoustics perceived to be too reverberant when from in-person experience I know that they are not, was about the aspect of absolute sound through the videos, the representation of which I said to be inadequate. Again, consistent with my position over the years.
I did not comment on the relative amplifier comparison.
Again, what is so hard to understand?
It's absolute representation vs relative comparison.
Absolute representation vs relative comparison.
Absolute vs relative.
Absolute vs relative.
Do I need to repeat one more time?
I do not think even Bonzo claims videos are absolute. They convey certain aspects of the sound and can be supplemented by written descriptions. No one is claiming they are absolute, and I even think no one is implying that.
there is always the possibility that you will withdraw from the record some thing as did Ron yesterday. We all change our minds. You once declared you would not comment on videos. But now you do. That is great and most welcome.
I think videos will continue to be a part of high end dialogue. I appreciate Ron taking the time to make the videos and sharing them with us on his forum.
This is not about changing one's mind, which I have done many times and will continue to do so: life is learning.
This is about your consistent misrepresentation of a consistent stance on videos, and pretending there to be a fundamental change of mind when there is none.
I don't think Ked welcomes me commenting on videos.
Today I felt compelled to rectify a misunderstanding about Ron's actual room acoustics, which I have heard in person, based on misleading video sound.
I was surprised at the interest in the EL34 in this amp. I found that a colored tube -- toward the lush side of things. KT series is relatively more angular and cooler.
The difference in the two seems quite significant and I was surprised but possibly reflects how panels can be very revealing of differences in the amps that drive them.
At this early stage do you have a preference Ron?
I’d guess if you were going to roll the output tubes you wouldn’t want the Jadis to be in any way more euphonic.
I appreciate you posting videos, hope you find a recording method that better represents in-room sound.
A lot more than that. If means you are also using the 7.5 preamplifier in a very different mode. If you want to compare just the power amplifiers you should also try the Siegfried II in single ended with single ended cables.
The Jadis gain is surely different from the Siegfried II you also have to take it in account. IMO unless you measure it with instruments - some test frequency test signals or even noise tracks will do it with the help of a sound meter - the test is flawed.
I do not think so, although I am not sure on what you mean by trivial. As explained many times in WBF balanced mode is very different from single ended, either technically (measurably) and in sound attributes.
And once you go in 50 feet interconnects they can make huge differences. Remember that most people will agree that a single poorly chosen interconnect can ruin a system.
IMO you are comparing systems, not just amplifiers.
The guys who want to dissect Ron’s system by watching/listening to videos of Eva Cassidy, even going so far as to bring in YouTube’s version, once again miss the mark.
Had Eva lived, she would have been 60 this year. Her career was cut short 27 years ago, never having really gotten off the ground. There were some tapes of live performances, and some tapes of modest studio origin. There were never “great tapes,” like have been produced for Norah Jones, Melody Gardot, Diana Krall …
What we have available represent an excellent effort on the part of some seriously famous guys who have put together enjoyable performances from what was available. This never would have worked had Eva not been a rare talent of wide appeal. I love to listen to her.
Regarding Ron’s presentation of her Sting cover, he is to be congratulated. His system has presented the hall reverberation that is on the master tape very well. All the insight shared about his room being “like a garage or hangar” is so much misguided puffing and posturing.
Very nice Ron.
Had Eva lived, she would have been 60 this year. Her career was cut short 27 years ago, never having really gotten off the ground. There were some tapes of live performances, and some tapes of modest studio origin. There were never “great tapes,” like have been produced for Norah Jones, Melody Gardot, Diana Krall …
What we have available represent an excellent effort on the part of some seriously famous guys who have put together enjoyable performances from what was available. This never would have worked had Eva not been a rare talent of wide appeal. I love to listen to her.
Regarding Ron’s presentation of her Sting cover, he is to be congratulated. His system has presented the hall reverberation that is on the master tape very well. All the insight shared about his room being “like a garage or hangar” is so much misguided puffing and posturing.
Very nice Ron.
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