Ron’s New System

[Al M.]

A) What makes you think the higher powered Jadis amps have more resolution? You have more tubes and circuitry to contribute to noise and distortion. I think among Jadis lovers the JA30 is probably the best sounding of that amp line. I would expect that based on my experience with amps as well. Again, you are falling for the fallacy of power being inherently better.

Agreed. One of the reasons why I chose my stereo amp over monoblocks was less tubes (2 power tubes per channel rather than 4) and thus greater simplicity of circuit. Not that the latter is necessarily always better, but if the choice is so binary (with extra power not really needed) that's what I go with.

Three decades ago a friend in Austria had to make a choice between Rotel SS amps of 60 W/ch, 80 W/ch and 120 W/ch on relatively easy to drive speakers. I predicted that the 60 W/ch amp would sound best. I was right. It sounded the most lively and dynamic of the three. We both heard it clearly, no second thoughts. My friend chose the 60 W/ch amp.

 

[Lagonda]

A) What makes you think the higher powered Jadis amps have more resolution? You have more tubes and circuitry to contribute to noise and distortion. I think among Jadis lovers the JA30 is probably the best sounding of that amp line. I would expect that based on my experience with amps as well. Again, you are falling for the fallacy of power being inherently better.

B) I will reiterate that I think the best sounding high powered SET I have heard (and this includes all your choices except the biggest MasterSound...I have heard smaller 845 ones thought) is the Aries Cerat Concero 65. Transparency, dynamics (the best I know of regardless of the amp tech), resolution, and tonal/timbral accuracy that promotes a sense of realism. I don't know who else you are getting advice from that is steering you away from them but they are wrong and the AC amps are simply incredibly good.

Are the AC Concero 65 amps regular SET or something hybrid ?

 

[microstrip]

Why "a lot more than that"? Other than single-ended and 6dB less output than the balanced outputs what are the other technical ramifications of using balanced outputs and single-ended outputs simultaneously on the TL-7.5 Series III?

When used in balanced mode the distortion spectra of the VTL preamplifier is different from the spectra in single ended mode. Balanced mode is more than two single ended inputs and outputs - the phases are summed somewhere with sound quality consequences.

 

[Argonaut]

A) What makes you think the higher powered Jadis amps have more resolution? You have more tubes and circuitry to contribute to noise and distortion. I think among Jadis lovers the JA30 is probably the best sounding of that amp line. I would expect that based on my experience with amps as well. Again, you are falling for the fallacy of power being inherently better.

Whilst perhaps not a universal constant , certainly and for my part as a general formulation I concur , and specifically within the Jadis JA lines that I have heard most certainly so imho … A further example of such a formulation being an ARC system that I ran for a few years moving through ( non chronological ) 110watt > 150watt > 160watt > 250watt > 600watt , transducer dependent … and the one model that I still retain for musicality reasoning … ARC REF75SE.

 

[bonzo75]

Power corrupts

 

[microstrip]

A fair point! From this JA100 experimentation I am hoping to learn several things, including: (...)

-- whether 50 feet of single-ended interconnect in my room picks up noise (answer seems to be no)

Noise pick up will depend mostly on the input / output impedance of equipment and the implemented grounding system of gear.

-- learn about the sounds of different output tubes

IMO we can't separate the differences from tube sound from the gear being used - what you experience whit a Jadis class A in a few days can't be generalized to other amplifiers. We must also remember tubes need at less 100 hours burn in before the sound settles.

 

[christoph]

Time to think high power SET

KR Audio Kronzilla DX monos are 100 watts per channel

 

[morricab]

Are the AC Concero 65 amps regular SET or something hybrid ?

Regular SET. I am not sure if A) Ron would interested in a somewhat exotic technology or B) Something with lower power in his (assumed) price range.

 

[morricab]

KR Audio Kronzilla DX monos are 100 watts per channel

Also one to consider and I know the BG ribbons sound good with KR.

 

[Al M.]

IMO we can't separate the differences from tube sound from the gear being used - what you experience whit a Jadis class A in a few days can't be generalized to other amplifiers. We must also remember tubes need at less 100 hours burn in before the sound settles.

Agreed. KT150 tubes in a Quicksilver amp sound vastly different than KT150 tubes in an Octave amp -- for a good part probably also because the Octave amp has a superior output transformer with much greater HF linearity and extension.

 

[morricab]

Agreed. KT150 tubes in a Quicksilver amp sound vastly different than KT150 tubes in an Octave amp -- for a good part probably also because the Octave amp has a superior output transformer with much greater HF linearity and extension.

Probably runs them as pure Pentodes, whereas the QuickSilver is likely ultra linear circuit…or triode.

 

[Lagonda]

Regular SET. I am not sure if A) Ron would interested in a somewhat exotic technology or B) Something with lower power in his (assumed) price range.

Don't forget that Ron is a purist ! At least in theory !

 

[Ron Resnick]

A) What makes you think the higher powered Jadis amps have more resolution? You have more tubes and circuitry to contribute to noise and distortion. I think among Jadis lovers the JA30 is probably the best sounding of that amp line. I would expect that based on my experience with amps as well.

I don't think this. I was merely asking the question. I don't see how adding more tubes could possibly provide more resolution or more transparency. That would be counterintuitive to me.

However, the VTLs at 12 tubes, are extremely transparent and extremely resolving. They are more resolving and they are more transparent and the JA100 with four output tubes. So the circuit must play a very large role in resulting transparency and in resulting resolution, not just a number of tubes.

Subjectively for me, my system with the VTLs on those drivers is so incredibly transparent and resolving I can't believe it; I don't understand it (with all of the massed tubes in the VTLs and tubes almost everywhere else) and I like all of that resolution and transparency. The new Io is noticeably more transparent and noticeably more resolving than the old Io.

But keeping the circuit constant (Jadis) it's very hard to see how 10 tubes could be more resolving and more transparent than four tubes.

Again, you are falling for the fallacy of power being inherently better.

Nope! You're making an assumption to make your case. Less power is better than more power -- unless you need the higher power.

B) I will reiterate that I think the best sounding high powered SET I have heard (and this includes all your choices except the biggest MasterSound...I have heard smaller 845 ones thought) is the Aries Cerat Concero 65. Transparency, dynamics (the best I know of regardless of the amp tech), resolution, and tonal/timbral accuracy that promotes a sense of realism. I don't know who else you are getting advice from that is steering you away from them but they are wrong and the AC amps are simply incredibly good.

Why are you assuming anyone is steering me away from them? I answered this question previously that I simply have never heard them or any of their brethren, and I have never seen them come for sale used. No other reason at all.

How would you characterize their "weightiness" from the lower midrange to the upper bass compared to the NAT Magma or Wavac 833 or Absolare SET?

In an ideal world I would get each of these amplifiers and we would have a massive group comparison.

Thank you.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Are the AC Concero 65 amps regular SET or something hybrid ?

all-tube SET

 

[Al M.]

Probably runs them as pure Pentodes, whereas the QuickSilver is likely ultra linear circuit…or triode.

As far as I know, the Quicksilver amp that I tested used the KT150 as pentode.

 

[morricab]

I don't think this. I was merely asking the question. I don't see how adding more tubes could possibly provide more resolution or more transparency. That would be counterintuitive to me.

However, the VTLs at 12 tubes, are extremely transparent and extremely resolving. They are more resolving and they are more transparent and the JA100 with four output tubes. So the circuit must play a very large role in resulting transparency and in resulting resolution, not just a number of tubes.

But keeping the circuit constant (Jadis) it's very hard to see how 10 tubes could be more resolving and more transparent than four tubes.



Why are you assuming anyone is steering me away from them? I answered this question previously that I simply have never heard them or any of their brethren, and I have never seen them come for sale used. No other reason at all.

How would you characterize their "weightiness" from the lower midrange to the upper bass compared to the NAT Magma or Wavac 833 or Absolare SET?

In an ideal world I would get each of these amplifiers and we would have a massive group comparison.

Thank you.

Then why were you talking about JA200 and JA500?

 

[bonzo75]

KR Audio Kronzilla DX monos are 100 watts per channel

And the KR VA 200 are 180 watts. Not many made though so have to hunt it down. Fantastic better than Kronzilla on Avalon

 

[Ron Resnick]

Then why were you talking about JA200 and JA500?

Because I have never heard JA200. Maybe the transparency stays the same, but dynamics are improved?

 

[DasguteOhr]

Jadis iron has not a great bandwidth is not good for dynamic.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Jadis iron has not a great bandwidth is not good for dynamic.

I don't need bandwith, as the woofer towers cover 200Hz and below. This is the fun part of bi-amping flexibility.