Nah. I sus it on my own."The battle of the Alpha speakers" sounds like a catch phrase Jay could have come up with !You guys !
Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
I believe there is a thickening in the sound around the 3-rd lowest note that she sings in the song.
Its when she sing the word "Gold" every time you hear it, it is different
The amps all reproduce this particular word with slight difference.
Recording A:
Gold has a extra emphasis on the o section of the word, and it is "muddier" by a tince. Room ambience is also subdued, slightly
Recording B:
Gold has a more clear articulation, now it is emphasis less muddied. Still "O" is very lightly blurred
Recording C:
Gold now sound like "correct" with a resonance or a deeper emphasis, but all of the "O" sound is fully clear.
I'm gonna go with recording C. And this "amp" seems to control speaker the best.
But "B" has most of the "tube" beauty...
There is a in room resonance here (or a multiple), its about 220 to 300hz... its a peak. Am I far off?
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Even if this were correct, would it really matter if one word was slightly different in all 3 cases - would that change the assessment of overall system sound or a component?
Well, that is what I noticed, the word "Gold" when sung deep, was different sounding, so I focused on that.
But the pressure of sound, room ambience (we can somewhat hear ambience as in decay trail..) and all that as in really being there, we cannot experience.
And I would walk back and forth and listen for dips and peaks. The list goes on.
Of course, there were stark differences in the 3 recordings, but I was asked to describe something...
Meesa diid.
But I will elaborate.
The song starts:
- Applause -can I count the hands, does is sound like flesh and bone? A,B,C different.. A muddied the applause a tince
Into it:
Instruments. Attack decay, nail sound on string, the hollow of the body, woody resonance, B,C clearly more "space"
During:
Voice: Distance to mic, size of recording booth, head up or head down, usual stuff B more harmonic, C clear advantage in clarity..
So, lots of things were different, but one thing was clearly easiest to hear... IMHO
And all recording sounded slightly peaky from 220hz tro 300hz, versus "actual file" so you know... a in room peak? or speaker freq modulation by all amps just there...
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You were correct!
It is never a good idea to block in whole or in part the rear wave propagation of a planar dipole speaker right at the back of the speaker. But without calling my professional moving crew for another paid job, I've had no way to move them
This weekend for the first time in months I had enough manpower to help me move the woofer towers back to the sides of the room. Three out of three people preferred the sound this way.
One of those three, a new friend who is a lifelong recording engineer, heard smearing of high frequencies due to the walls of glass behind the Hunter Douglas Duette shades on the rear wall. Placing spare absorption panels between the glass and the shades fixed this problem by over half, he says.
I was expecting Alsyvox to be the best loudspeaker at this year's Munich.
I wouldn't swap them for my Duettas.
Last year, I would have pleaded for a swap.
Difference? Lesser Alsyvox speakers that to me sounded completely not run in plus solid state throughout the chain.
Daniele didn't want to carry on with Lucasz and I can definitely understand that. But last year's Alsyvox system was so completely ahead of this year's on subjective grounds I thought it beggared belief. Whilst I might not like the dude at all, that specific Horizon (needs qualifying because any Lampi model generally does not sound the same as another of the same type due to tube selection and user specification requirements) plus the same manufacturers (Plinius) amps I would put at reference class after 45 years in the hobby.
Old, unserviced original spec and misjudged refurb Apogees aren't and don't cut it. Decent, well judged recent ones do cut it way above ridiculous Alsyvox prices.
Just being honest to my own perceptions here.
IF given the chance to set up an alsyvox demo at a show. Just for fun…
How would you have amped and done it?
Come on, you have experience it seems, surely you can say how you would have made it sing like you want it?
I’m curious, what Amp would you start such a task with?
Hello Ron,
A few ideas to consider.
The next time you get some guys over get the bass tower up on some furniture sliders so you can more easily push them around. Putting them to the outside of the Clarysis seems to be the correct place for them. But moving them slightly closer or farther from the claryisis will make a noticable difference.
If you want to use the bass towers get a Wilson ActivXo so you can low pass the towers at 30Hz or so. Whatever is needed so they are below the Clarysis. I think the bass towers would make a good sub bass unit for the clarysis but overlapping them too much is going to blur the sound.
Feel free to ignore. Just my 2c.
A few ideas to consider.
The next time you get some guys over get the bass tower up on some furniture sliders so you can more easily push them around. Putting them to the outside of the Clarysis seems to be the correct place for them. But moving them slightly closer or farther from the claryisis will make a noticable difference.
If you want to use the bass towers get a Wilson ActivXo so you can low pass the towers at 30Hz or so. Whatever is needed so they are below the Clarysis. I think the bass towers would make a good sub bass unit for the clarysis but overlapping them too much is going to blur the sound.
Feel free to ignore. Just my 2c.
I think using the Wilson Crossover is an excellent idea...it allows Ron to customize the subtowers in a way that cannot apparently be done internally within the Gryphon towers themselves.
He does not have one, he is a honorary member only !
He c
No no. It was a valid question.
How does someone assess what he is hearing.
A YouTube vid… as it is, will tell you something, but not a lot…
«The Word gold, and the ‘o’ …»
That was a thin description.
I will agree on that part.
Monty Python skit about dinosaurus.
I have a theory about dinosaur.
Thin in one end, thick in the middle, thin in the other end
That tells you all you need to know.
Not really…
He can have mine, it’s a ‘Gold’ card.
No no. It was a valid question.
How does someone assess what he is hearing.
A YouTube vid… as it is, will tell you something, but not a lot…
«The Word gold, and the ‘o’ …»
That was a thin description.
I will agree on that part.
Monty Python skit about dinosaurus.
I have a theory about dinosaur.
Thin in one end, thick in the middle, thin in the other end
That tells you all you need to know.
Not really…
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30 hz is pretty low and makes for a poor handoff , IMO no sub is gonna suffice unless he limits the low Frequency of the main panels ...!
With proper amplification Those Clarysis will not suffer for low bass nor will you lose the delicate balance between the mid/Highs ..!
Well if it sounded better than your modded Duettas last year, it sure as hell will sound better than them this year , Obviously the setup was off ....
IMHO one thing is certain -- running the towers full range up to 200Hz is not really going to work. Trying to get this to work is likely an exercise in frustration. So, if Ron wants to keep the bass towers then we need a crossover to roll them off at some frequency. I suggested 30Hz as that is the lowest the Wilson ActivXo crossover will go. But the actual frequency would be based on some REW measurements to see where the Clarysis rolls off in the room at the listening position. If done correctly we can find the zone that will give the smoothest bass with a rolloff at the bottom to be able to smoothly blend in the towers.
I think what you are saying is that no subwoofer is going to work with the Clarysis. We would just have to disagree on that topic.
With the flurry of discussion about acoustic treatments and the like on other threads I thought I would update the acoustic treatment status of my room.
My preferred starting place for planar dipole loudspeakers is to have no absorption and no diffusion -- no treatment at all -- on the front wall behind the loudspeakers. The theory behind this is to get a clean back wave reflection off of the front wall.
I have the custom ASC Helmholtz resonator tube traps in the front corners, but nothing between them on the front wall.
I am absorbing first reflections on the sidewalls with commercial acoustic absorber panels. I have commercial acoustic absorber panels covering the glass walls at the rear behind the Hunter Douglas shades. I placed those there to cover the glass walls over the weekend when my new recording engineer friend told me that he was hearing smearing of high frequencies due to reflections from the rear glass walls. He says the addition of the panels has reduced this problem by more than half.
His advice is prompting me to also cover the glass left side wall to the kitchen with panels behind the shade.
So, no treatment on the front wall, no treatment on the ceiling, no treatment on most of the sidewalls above nine feet. There is wall-to-wall carpet in the rear 2/3 of the room, and some carpet sections over wood flooring in the first third of the room. Speaking voices in the room sound natural to me, and overall the space is far from over-damped. It is less damped than every professional acoustician designed room I have been in, except possibly MikeL's room, which has no absorption panels at all.
My glass rear wall and partial glass left sidewall definitely have proven to be a bigger actual problem than I anticipated. My professional acoustician's prescription originally was a heavy, full height, wrap-around curtain covering all of that glass. That certainly would have been a more uniform solution acoustically, but it would've looked to my eyes more weird than what I have here now with acoustic absorption panels behind standard window treatment.
I still have the three PSI AVAAs flanking the listening position like bodyguards.
My preferred starting place for planar dipole loudspeakers is to have no absorption and no diffusion -- no treatment at all -- on the front wall behind the loudspeakers. The theory behind this is to get a clean back wave reflection off of the front wall.
I have the custom ASC Helmholtz resonator tube traps in the front corners, but nothing between them on the front wall.
I am absorbing first reflections on the sidewalls with commercial acoustic absorber panels. I have commercial acoustic absorber panels covering the glass walls at the rear behind the Hunter Douglas shades. I placed those there to cover the glass walls over the weekend when my new recording engineer friend told me that he was hearing smearing of high frequencies due to reflections from the rear glass walls. He says the addition of the panels has reduced this problem by more than half.
His advice is prompting me to also cover the glass left side wall to the kitchen with panels behind the shade.
So, no treatment on the front wall, no treatment on the ceiling, no treatment on most of the sidewalls above nine feet. There is wall-to-wall carpet in the rear 2/3 of the room, and some carpet sections over wood flooring in the first third of the room. Speaking voices in the room sound natural to me, and overall the space is far from over-damped. It is less damped than every professional acoustician designed room I have been in, except possibly MikeL's room, which has no absorption panels at all.
My glass rear wall and partial glass left sidewall definitely have proven to be a bigger actual problem than I anticipated. My professional acoustician's prescription originally was a heavy, full height, wrap-around curtain covering all of that glass. That certainly would have been a more uniform solution acoustically, but it would've looked to my eyes more weird than what I have here now with acoustic absorption panels behind standard window treatment.
I still have the three PSI AVAAs flanking the listening position like bodyguards.
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No what i said was no subwoofer is gonna work with the Clarysis unless you roll off the panels , running them down wide open to 30 hz would be a poor handoff , also never suggested 200 my suggestion was 80hz . The other difficulty will be matching the added bass to the delicate balance of the ribbon /Mids..
So yes a subwoofer can be applied , never implied one couldn't subwoofer a panel.. ...