Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Maybe but that is right around the bottom of that ribbons range. I have shorter BG drivers in a DIY design where I ran the crossover at around 500hz rather than down to 200 to avoid this issue. Not saying that is the cause but it’s possible.There is still a suck-out in the lower midrange. I can hear it on Stevie Nick's voice. Hopefully that is the ribbon drivers needing to break in.
interestingly, Gary Koh employs that ribbon driver down to 100Hz.
As it was only rated to 180Hz, I would not think that is a good idea. The excursions needed at 100Hz are likely greater than that driver can do because it is tightly clamped on all sides… it is not a ribbon that is clamped only top and bottom. There is very limited excursion capability that remains linear and it will just hit a hard stop quickly at 100hz I would think.
Ohhh!
I think a basic, dedicated electrical infrustrcture makes sense -- things like low-gauge wire, dedicated circuits to dedicated sub-panel, low resistance to ground grounding system.
I found my brief comparison of the Equi-Tech 2QR and the PS Audio P10 so befuddling that I stepped away from the idea of purchasing either type of device at the beginning of my new system.
Equi=Tech 2RQ Versus PS Audio P10
I think that these active power boxes, as well as passive power conditioning devices and grounding devices, all affect the sound. I think it is impossible to predict in advance the sonic affect of any of these boxes on one's particular system, in one's particular existing electrical infrastructure, according to one's particular subjective sonic preferences.
In general, I think the sonic effects these boxes produce tend to be of the hi-fi attribute variety, and I don't cotton to the philosophy of maximizing "black backgrounds" or "low noise floor" or "clearly delineated sonic images" or "pinpoint imaging" or "sonic contrast." In other words, I don't start out with the presumption that these kinds of components will do to the sound anything I like.
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Proper grounding in itself affects the sound without any of the above devices.
interconnects as well.
with no hum or very low hum following a simple grounding method improves the sound. now feeling it’s better is then a preference I feel. Some love horns or planners or ribbons or cones. All play music if done well. but clearly we each have preferences
I feel even to compare the two devices is an exercise in learning your possible preferences over results in conclusions
Just saying
interconnects as well.
with no hum or very low hum following a simple grounding method improves the sound. now feeling it’s better is then a preference I feel. Some love horns or planners or ribbons or cones. All play music if done well. but clearly we each have preferences
I feel even to compare the two devices is an exercise in learning your possible preferences over results in conclusions
Just saying
You are pointing out that my advocacy of things like low-gauge wire, dedicated circuits to dedicated sub-panel, low resistance to ground grounding system is itself a presumption. You are totally correct -- it is a presumption, and it is likely changing the sound in some ways, and I have no A/B comparison ability or "control group."
The difference is, I am comfortable with this presumption about things like low-gauge wire, dedicated circuits to dedicated sub-panel, low resistance to ground grounding system, because these efforts make theoretical sense to me from a basic electrical point of view (based on my former understanding of elementary electronics and grounding from my amateur radio days).
Clear enough.Ohhh!
I think a basic, dedicated electrical infrustrcture makes sense -- things like low-gauge wire, dedicated circuits to dedicated sub-panel, low resistance to ground grounding system.
I found my brief comparison of the Equi-Tech 2QR and the PS Audio P10 so befuddling that I stepped away from the idea of purchasing either type of device at the beginning of my new system.
Equi=Tech 2RQ Versus PS Audio P10
I think that these active power boxes, as well as passive power conditioning devices and grounding devices, all affect the sound. I think it is impossible to predict in advance the sonic affect of any of these boxes on one's particular system, in one's particular existing electrical infrastructure, according to one's particular subjective sonic preferences.
In general, I think the sonic effects these boxes produce tend to be of the hi-fi attribute variety, and I don't cotton to the philosophy of maximizing "black backgrounds" or "low noise floor" or "clearly delineated sonic images" or "pinpoint imaging" or "sonic contrast." In other words, I don't start out with the presumption that these kinds of boxes will do to the sound anything I like.
I agree! It would be fun to audition in my own system one or more power-related devices at some point in the future. In particular, I would be curious to try an Equi-Tech or a Torus isolation transformer/balanced power device on the front-end components.
don't confuse the stand alone Equi=tech 2RQ with the 'big boy' Equi=tech 10WQ 10kva Wall Panel system. the 2RQ is going to be headroom limited relatively. it weighs 70 pounds and plugs into your 120v outlet. the 10WQ weighs 400 pounds and is wall mounted (not hung.....inserted between the studs.....you build the wall around it) and uses a 3 phase 70 amp 220v source and mine has it's own grounding rod.Ohhh!
I think a basic, dedicated electrical infrustrcture makes sense -- things like low-gauge wire, dedicated circuits to dedicated sub-panel, low resistance to ground grounding system.
I found my brief comparison of the Equi-Tech 2QR and the PS Audio P10 so befuddling that I stepped away from the idea of purchasing either type of device at the beginning of my new system.
Equi=Tech 2RQ Versus PS Audio P10
I think that these active power boxes, as well as passive power conditioning devices and grounding devices, all affect the sound. I think it is impossible to predict in advance the sonic affect of any of these boxes on one's particular system, in one's particular existing electrical infrastructure, according to one's particular subjective sonic preferences.
In general, I think the sonic effects these boxes produce tend to be of the hi-fi attribute variety, and I don't cotton to the philosophy of maximizing "black backgrounds" or "low noise floor" or "clearly delineated sonic images" or "pinpoint imaging" or "sonic contrast." In other words, I don't start out with the presumption that these kinds of boxes will do to the sound anything I like.
i'm not claiming that you would love the sound of the big boy. but it's a different thing from what you checked out. and not sure how much relevance that compare would have.
just say'n.
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I agree, Mike; those are very different devices in very different applications. No doubt about it.
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PS: I already am a little bit suspicious/nervous about whether there is something about the balanced interconnects system (versus single-ended cables) which tends to suppress even-order harmonics somehow (due to the common mode noise rejection) and makes the sound somehow less rich or natural or organic.
(I know Ralph Karsten counsels that this is not the case. Each of Aesthetix and Gryphon and VTL is an advocate of balanced connections. So I am massively out-voted on this concern.)
(I know Ralph Karsten counsels that this is not the case. Each of Aesthetix and Gryphon and VTL is an advocate of balanced connections. So I am massively out-voted on this concern.)
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Not by me, or more importantly, Nelson Pass.PS: I already am a little bit suspicious/nervous about whether there is something about the balanced interconnects system (versus single-ended cables) which tends to suppress even-order harmonics somehow (due to the common mode noise rejection) and makes the sound somehow less rich or natural or organic.
(I know Ralph Karsten counsels that this is not the case. Each of Aesthetix and Gryphon and VTL is an advocate of balanced connections. So I am massively out-voted on this concern.)
Although with plenty of balanced amps, I think he'd just say "different." A difference that roughly 1/3rd of listeners are especially sensitive to and prefer. And it's not just a second order harmonic that he finds is preferable to those people, it's a negative phased second harmonic and its presence leads to an impression of greater soundstage depth.
https://diyaudiostore.com/products/h2-harmonic-generator
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For this early on, in fine tuning your system this is an amazing improvement. Congratulations Ron.
Super graph, Ron. Very impressive. I wonder whether you might prefer a touch more bass below 50hz? 3db-5db? All personal, just curious
It turns out the second graph is totally spurious, as the Y axis range was different than in the first graph, as eagle-eyed microstrip correctly discerned. I have to redo the test with the correct settings on the app.
Do you think that even with an interconnect length between line stage and amplifiers of 47 feet single-end is a reasonable way to go?
I read the Nelson Pass link. I do not interpret anything therein to be saying that balanced interconnects reduce second order harmonics.
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Did you notice this "suck-out", prior to reducing the bass level?There is still a suck-out in the lower midrange. I can hear it on Stevie Nick's voice. Hopefully that is the ribbon drivers needing to break in.
If not, than perhaps you need to revisit the previous bass level, or a nice compromise that helps with the suck-out. You also might want to move all four columns forward ( or backward) to allow for a more seamless flow and natural voicing of the speaker. Also try repositioning your chair/couch....even a few inches can pay dividends.
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