Ron’s New System

[Alrainbow]

47 feet is a very long to start with and while ill get ignored by most , SE or BAL the first issue is can the line stage drive such a long cable for a variety of reasons. Bal was not made for us it was for studios for again a variety of reasons with one being long runs and isolating the ground from signal. BAL has a few topologies but the good ones keep the signal isolated from the shield and ground . where SE can do this but needs a 3 conductor cable like bal uses.
At one point I had about 40 feet from line to amps
since my line stage and amps were true bal topology the length still mattered and could be heard once made much shorter. And yes I used 3 kinds of bal cables with varying specs. longer runs most times need a low capacitive insulation.
one thing to try is put the amp close to the line stage to test. Then plan a forward path. The possible sound changes are not staging as an example to listen for. Yes it can be stage as well but the over all tone and dynamics

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you, Al. Figuring out cable questions and experimenting with cable alternatives is far down the road for me.

The easiest experiment there would be simply to replace all of the balanced Belden 1192A cables with single-ended Belden 1192A cables.

 

[Alrainbow]

What ever make you try things and hopefully like the sound better.

 

[Ron Resnick]

slight panel toe-in

 

[Ron Resnick]

zero toe-in

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think maybe I should try removing the tube traps to reduce the dip from 250Hz to 1kHz.

 

[Johan K]

Thank you, Al. Figuring out cable questions and experimenting with cable alternatives is far down the road for me.

The easiest experiment there would be simply to replace all of the balanced Belden 1192A cables with single-ended Belden 1192A cables.

Dear Ron,

Let me put something into prospective here. I know that you’re eager to have everything in place at once… One usually are, when putting up a completely new system. But you have to be patient - The sound will come.. but it will take time, and probably a lot of it.

For instans:
When I / we moved into our house and I was to reinstalling my system into my ”new” room it took me almost three years to find the ultimate sound from my front speakers… all due to very demanding acoustics in my new room. It took almost six month to integrate my subwoofer system with my front speakers.
Now?… it’s not because I didn’t know anything obout how to do it… It was just that, that every little change I did, completely change the sound, and it was always something that abscured the sounds full potential… So I practically maried my stereo system and tried every possible variable in the room, millimeter by millimeter (very nerdy indeed, I know) but it finally worked… but it took as I said, almost three years.

So my point here is:
Because your speaker system are all new and has not been played a week yet, it will take time before the sound is in place. It’s so many parameters to concider. But hey, it’s also the magic with all this hobby of ours… to fix and trix, to tweek and mix diffrent combo’s together and see what works, and what doesn’t. I’ll bet you are still tweeking your system millimeter by millimeter six month from now, because that’s the way it is to get it perfect.

Like Cus D’Amato said to Mike Tyson:
-”It’s good, but it’s not perfect - It takes time to get it perfect, you just keep working on it”!!

So keep working on it Ron, and the sound will come?…


Sincerely

/ Jk

 

[Ron Resnick]

 

[Ron Resnick]

 

[microstrip]

Good catch! I did not notice that! The first one was from Russ' app.

I will re-do it later.

How should I select all of these options?

View attachment 104292

It is the first time I see graphs of this particular analyzer software and I do not know how to change the parameters - for higher frequency resolution in the bass you should find a setting that allows you to change 16 384 points to 32768 or 655536 points - the FFT resolution should increase to 1.45 or .73 Hz. Usually we can change scales tapping on the scale and changing minimum and maximum or maximum and range.

 

[microstrip]

View attachment 104327

Beautiful! It must sound better with a clean horizon.

 

[LL21]

zero toe-in

View attachment 104326

Interesting...I recall reading that Gryphon had a very definite view on the starting point for a setup which was to set these up almost on a semi-circle around the listener?

 

[microstrip]

Ohhh!

I think a basic, dedicated electrical infrustrcture makes sense -- things like low-gauge wire, dedicated circuits to dedicated sub-panel, low resistance to ground grounding system.

Yes, they make sense. Although the extremely low resistance to ground often referred is a myth, in some cases it can make a difference.

I found my brief comparison of the Equi-Tech 2QR and the PS Audio P10 so befuddling that I stepped away from the idea of purchasing either type of device at the beginning of my new system.

Equi=Tech 2RQ Versus PS Audio P10​

I think that these active power boxes, as well as passive power conditioning devices and grounding devices, all affect the sound. I think it is impossible to predict in advance the sonic affect of any of these boxes on one's particular system, in one's particular existing electrical infrastructure, according to one's particular subjective sonic preferences.

You listened to these systems using Lamm electronics, that are class A, low power and include powerful mains filters at their mains input in another place. IMO nothing you observed there can be extrapolated to your system. Did you had your mains quality analyzed?

In general, I think the sonic effects these boxes produce tend to be of the hi-fi attribute variety, and I don't cotton to the philosophy of maximizing "black backgrounds" or "low noise floor" or "clearly delineated sonic images" or "pinpoint imaging" or "sonic contrast." In other words, I don't start out with the presumption that these kinds of components will do to the sound anything I like.

Curious. So you you want "grey black grounds" like listening close to a motorway, "high noise floor" like listening close to an airport, blurred sonic images and a no sonic contrast, as if we have a blanket between you and the musicians?

I know this is mainly semantics, but known reviewers, such as Michael Fremer, Martin Colloms or John Atkinson, use these words in the positive sense they are used by the majority of the audiophile community and manufacturers - as attributes that lead to a realistic sound reproduction. Why sticking to the use of these words to address sound reproduction extreme artifacts that are well discussed and understood?

Do you know from where I quoted this sentence "XXX YYY offers a tonally natural musical presence, a rich, varied palette of colours grounded with appropriate weight and body and
set in the original acoustic space with pinpoint dimensional accuracy "?

 

[Alrainbow]

Ron do these speakers radiate front and back ?
What is the total room size in depth ?

 

[Lagonda]

How far apart are the center towers at this point ? It looks great without the tube traps and de-humidifier !

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

View attachment 104327

My totally illogical unprofessional and amateur opinion but some panel experience says, move the two main towers closer together (like over to the edge of the center carpet panel) and zero tow in. Maybe even get the left one out from under the low ceiling.
I have zero experience with woofer towers and my OCD wants to see them next to the main panels but I have seen (not heard) some problems solved by using alternate positions.
The room is more elegant without the traps.
What happens if you rotate the set up 90° to the right, is that a long uninterrupted wall?

 

[KeithR]

Who makes a free-standing Helmholtz resonator which will absorb with a sharp Q at a center frequency of 60Hz to 65Hz?

View attachment 104288

Looks like you need some setup help, first.

Dear Ron,

Let me put something into prospective here. I know that you’re eager to have everything in place at once… One usually are, when putting up a completely new system. But you have to be patient - The sound will come.. but it will take time, and probably a lot of it.

For instans:
When I / we moved into our house and I was to reinstalling my system into my ”new” room it took me almost three years to find the ultimate sound from my front speakers… all due to very demanding acoustics in my new room. It took almost six month to integrate my subwoofer system with my front speakers.
Now?… it’s not because I didn’t know anything obout how to do it… It was just that, that every little change I did, completely change the sound, and it was always something that abscured the sounds full potential… So I practically maried my stereo system and tried every possible variable in the room, millimeter by millimeter (very nerdy indeed, I know) but it finally worked… but it took as I said, almost three years.

So my point here is:
Because your speaker system are all new and has not been played a week yet, it will take time before the sound is in place. It’s so many parameters to concider. But hey, it’s also the magic with all this hobby of ours… to fix and trix, to tweek and mix diffrent combo’s together and see what works, and what doesn’t. I’ll bet you are still tweeking your system millimeter by millimeter six month from now, because that’s the way it is to get it perfect.

Like Cus D’Amato said to Mike Tyson:
-”It’s good, but it’s not perfect - It takes time to get it perfect, you just keep working on it”!!

So keep working on it Ron, and the sound will come?…


Sincerely

/ Jk

I agree with this- come back after 100-150 hours and start adjusting.

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

Looks like you need some setup help, first.

Jim Smith...he certainly has plenty of panel experience.

 

[bonzo75]

For instans:
When I / we moved into our house and I was to reinstalling my system into my ”new” room it took me almost three years

while chatting on text I had mentioned to him it will could take two. You are three. We can start a spread bet on the forum for this.

 

[cal3713]

Do you think that even with an interconnect length between line stage and amplifiers of 47 feet single-end is a reasonable way to go?

I read the Nelson Pass link. I do not interpret anything therein to be saying that balanced interconnects reduce second order harmonics.

Certainly you are correct that se vs bal cables themselves do not influence the distortion profile, but if you're using a pre or amp with a true balanced design to support that balanced connection, then you'll have even harmonics cancelled out in that part of the chain. I personally went single ended throughout because I'm sensitive to that negative phase 2nd harmonic effect.

Unfortunately I have to defer to others on cable length concerns.