Ron’s New System

[cjfrbw]

You are the master of tease. I can hardly wait to see those speakers set up in the space.

If they are anything like the Wisdom/BG ribbons I acquired, it won't be a disappointment.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Gary Koh’s Absolute Fidelity loudspeaker cables, designed with Genesis Technologies ribbon driver midrange/treble panels in mind, are installed. Gary’s Prime loudspeakers use as a midrange driver the same two meter ribbon driver used as a full-range driver in the Pendragon.

Gary has the view that when a speaker design crosses a full-range signal over to a high-pass for the midrange/treble panels big, high-current cable conductors are not necessary, and may actually smear or obscure low-level detail, micro-dynamics and ambient soundstage information.

Gary has actually heard his loudspeaker cables on Pendragons.

I think I am hearing more low-level detail on Bill Henderson’s “Send in the Clowns” than I have ever heard before.* Did you know there is glass clinking and muffled talking and table noise throughout almost the entire recording? I think I never heard this as clearly before.

*I cannot explain this at all. This could be a spurious observation due, for example, to different volume levels. Note that the CD I am listening to is a different mastering than the Classic Records LP re-issue I listen to routinely in systems I visit and which I used to listen to in my old system.

 

[dan31]

Great to see/hear some early benefits from your research on cables.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Great to see/hear some early benefits from your research on cables.

Thank you, but I cannot consider my unauditioned acceptance of Gary’s personal view and theory as “research.”

 

[dan31]

At least you took his advice. The man is experienced.

 

[microstrip]

You are the master of tease. I can hardly wait to see those speakers set up in the space.

If they are anything like the Wisdom/BG ribbons I acquired, it won't be a disappointment.

Just for my information, the Bohlender Graebener 75 inch driver is still being manufactured?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Just for my information, the Bohlender Graebener 75 inch driver is still being manufactured?

A bit complicated:

1) No; not by Bohlender Graebener.

2) No; not available for purchase.

3) Yes; by Gary who bought the assets of Bohlender Graebener and uses Bohlender Graebener’s tooling to make only for his loudspeakers an improved and more reliable version of the Bohlender Graebener 75” driver which used to go into the Pendragon and into Gary’s Prime/Dragon loudspeakers.

 

[Ron Resnick]

At least you took his advice. The man is experienced.

Gary sure is! He has vast experience on a very wide array of topics.

 

[dan31]

Gary sure is! He has vast experience on a very wide array of topics.

If anyone gets bored just look up Gary and read his posts. Some of his early insights are very informative. Not that the recent stuff is not great.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Innuos PULSEmini has been ordered from Alex and Fabio at Alma.

Linear Tube Audio LPS+ has been ordered for PULSEmini.

 

[Ron Resnick]

In my original system in this room before some front wall and side walls structure modifications I never noticed a channel imbalance.




In this renovated room the front third of the wood floor initially was completely uncovered.





After Russ’ Magnepans and subwoofers were installed I noticed immediately that solo vocalists seemed to be pulling hard to the right. (I am not very sensitive to driver discontinuity or amplifier discontinuity, but I am very sensitive to channel imbalance.) I had to adjust the preamp five balance clicks to the left channel to center Bill Henderson in “Send in the Clowns.” (I don’t know how many dB of adjustment each balance step is on the VTL preamp.)

Puzzlingly, while playing the Stereophile Test CD3 the RadioShack digital SPL meter indicated that the same SPL was coming out of each speaker. Yet I kept hearing the right channel as louder.








I got from Amazon a Reed R8050 SPL meter. It seems to be a lot more serious and sensitive than the Radio Shack SPL meter I have had for decades. The Reed also measured each channel as having equal SPL, yet I was still hearing the right channel as louder. (Just to be sure it is not my ears I will have my eardrums vacuum cleaned early in the new year.)





Yesterday I laid down in the front part of the listening room (on the wood floor “stage” section) some edge-finished pieces of carpet I had cut from carpet left over from the listening room/theater room carpet roll. I think these carpet pieces ameliorated most of the channel imbalance I think I have been experiencing.

Maybe reflection off the floor is a bit amplified by the tall ceiling compared to the other, lower-ceiling, soffit-side?

Maybe this is why I never noticed a channel imbalance with the original system — because I never had the front third of the room not partially covered with carpet.

 

[Alrainbow]

In my original system in this room before some front wall and side walls structure modifications I never noticed a channel imbalance.

View attachment 101985


After Russ’ Magnepans and subwoofers were installed I noticed immediately that solo vocalists seemed to be pulling hard to the right. (I am not very sensitive to driver discontinuity or amplifier discontinuity, but I am very sensitive to channel imbalance.) I had to adjust the preamp five balance clicks to the left channel to center Bill Henderson in “Send in the Clowns.” (I don’t know how many dB of adjustment each balance step is on the VTL preamp.)

Puzzlingly, while playing the Stereophile Test CD3 the RadioShack digital SPL meter indicated that the same SPL was coming out of each speaker. Yet I kept hearing the right channel as louder.




View attachment 101986



I got from Amazon a Reed R8050 SPL meter. It seems to be a lot more serious and sensitive than the Radio Shack SPL meter I have had for decades. The Reed also measured each channel as having equal SPL, yet I was still hearing the right channel as louder. (Just to be sure it is not my ears I will have my eardrums vacuum cleaned early in the new year.)


View attachment 101987


Yesterday I laid down in the front part of the listening room (on the wood floor “stage” section) some edge-finished pieces of carpet I had cut from carpet left over from the listening room/theater room carpet roll.

I think it ameliorated most of the channel imbalance I think I have been experiencing.

Maybe reflection off the floor is a bit amplified by the tall ceiling compared to the other, lower-ceiling, soffit-side?

Maybe this is why I never noticed a channel imbalance with the original system because I never had the front third of the room not partially covered with carper?

What would explain my hearing a channel imbalance which is not verified by the SPL meter (assuming my left ear is not clogged)?

At my place imaging was always tough even at it’s best loudness effected it
So my first thought is does the image move at varying loudness levels ?
next does you being taller in your seat matter ?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Puzzlingly, while playing the Stereophile Test CD3 the RadioShack digital SPL meter indicated that the same SPL was coming out of each speaker. Yet I kept hearing the right channel louder.

do you hold the SPL meter near your ears, or out in front of you? mount it on a mic boom?

and try various angles with the SLP meter. the mic might be directional and be picking up more direct sound than your ears. i have no knowledge about this, just trying to make sense of your perceptions.

why does the SPL meter differ so much from what you are hearing?

also check your side to side hearing sensitivity with headphones if possible.

 

[Ron Resnick]

do you hold the SPL meter near your ears, or out in front of you? mount it on a mic boom?

I rest the SPL meter on the back edge of my chair without me holding it or touching it. So it is by itself, centered on the chair, just a couple of inches behind where my ears would be, and several inches lower than my ears would be.

 

[Ron Resnick]

the mic might be directional and be picking up more direct sound than your ears.

This is my theory as well — something related to reflections. That my right ear may be picking up more sound from the taller ceiling side than my left is picking up from the shorter ceiling side.

I think that the pieces of carpet I placed on the wood floor near the front wall (which I realized is how I always had the room originally with my prior system) seems to have ameliorated most of the channel imbalance anomaly.

With leftover carpet I had a variety of different lengths and sizes cut and edge-finished so that I could effectively use pieces of carpet as acoustic treatment on the wood floor if I wanted to, given that there is no acoustic treatment of any kind anywhere on my ceiling.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I rest the SPL meter on the back edge of my chair without me holding it or touching it. So it is by itself, centered on the chair, just a couple of inches behind where my ears would be, and several inches lower than my ears would be.

if the meter is resting on the top edge of the chair with the mic extending in front of the chair, the chair back is blocking rear reflections and side reflections compared to your ears. and the seat bottom is likely limiting floor reflective energy compared to your ears. and if the chair is upholstered then it's damping any reflections.

likely cause the sides to be more the same.

so the room is less 'there' to the SPL meter than your ears. direct sound is more prominent.

ideally you would have a tripod or mic boom to attach to the SPL meter in clear air.

 

[Ron Resnick]

That all sounds very plausible to me. Fortunately I think the carpet pieces solved most of the issue, if not all of the issue. I realized this looking back at the photo of the original room which had the carpet pieces in front as well, during which period I never noticed any channel imbalance.

Thank you for your brainstorming on this with me! Have a wonderful Christmas Eve!

 

[exupgh12]

Ron,

have you tried measuring the room using L+R channal with software + Umick (1 or 2) microphone?
this can elaborate more on the difference you are hearing.

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

Putting a lot of effort into your room set up that is going to be chucked out the window in a couple weeks / month eh...not that I am not totally enjoying going on this virtual journey with you because I am!

I experienced the same imbalance with my Maggies when they were in a room with a partial open side which I think you have. My solution was to use the balance and then find a different room in the house, which is not an option for you.
I am quit sure all this will change when the big boys get set up.

I really enjoy being able to ride along with someone as committed to panels as I am, always looking forward to the next post.

Merry Christmas

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Nice one Ron mate! Didn't see this post until just today...

Ah! Finally those Pendragon's are in the house! ... well nearly in the house. Looking forward to your set up and the trials and errors along the way... we can always learn something from others experiences. Happy to see crates! That's definitely some heavy lifting required.
I'm sure you'll find the best placement options and take things step by step, afterall putting together any highend system is an Art form! One of my very good mates used to say this.

Cheers and all the best mate.
A big WOOF!! To 2023!
RJ