Ron’s New System

[morricab]

Liberace, Cher, and Kiss decide to design a turntable….

You should hear it if you haven’t

 

[PeterA]

You should hear it if you haven’t

I have heard the smaller one many times. I have no idea where to hear the new big Discovery. I don’t know anyone who owns it. The comment is about the bling of the Discovery. There’s nothing else like it. Nothing to do with the sound. I would love to hear it sometime. I do not see any show coverage of the discovery at Munich. I heard that it’s about $250,000. That is quite expensive.

 

[morricab]

I have heard the smaller one many times. I have no idea where to hear the new big Discovery. I don’t know anyone who owns it. The comment is about the bling of the Discovery. There’s nothing else like it. Nothing to do with the sound. I would love to hear it sometime. I do not see any show coverage of the discovery at Munich. I heard that it’s about $250,000. Is that correct?

Yes, something like that. I think the "normal" Kronos Pro LE is an excellent table and I have heard many more rooms where it sounded good with this table than the likes of TechDas or even Kuzma (although their big one is very good too). The direct drive Primary Control is quite good, especially with their Field Coil arm. Let's not forget that 60K for the "small" (it is only small in relation to the Discovery...it's still a pretty big table) Kronos Pro LE is a LOT of money for one piece in a system.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Seriously?? I love the look

That's what makes horse racing!

(It may sound completely amazing, but to my eyes the Discovery looks like a complicated hot mess.)

 

[PeterA]

Yes, something like that. I think the "normal" Kronos Pro LE is an excellent table and I have heard many more rooms where it sounded good with this table than the likes of TechDas or even Kuzma (although their big one is very good too). The direct drive Primary Control is quite good, especially with their Field Coil arm. Let's not forget that 60K for the "small" (it is only small in relation to the Discovery...it's still a pretty big table) Kronos Pro LE is a LOT of money for one piece in a system.

My friend Madfloyd owns the Kronos Pro with upgrades. He uses the SME 3012R and Atlas Lambda. I have heard it perhaps 20 times in his familiar system. I have not compared it to other turntables directly, so it is difficult to understand how it is contributing to this out. I have heard his system sound excellent with this front end. Again, my comment was only about the extraordinary amount of bling on the discovery version. Aesthetics only.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I disagree. You were the first one to order AS 2000, the others did so after that, and you were the first one in your group and on the forum to order the Gryphon Pendragon, which as you said is quite different from other Gryphon speakers. You would have been in touch with mono and stereo and the Singapore owner, but that still qualifies you as early adopter.

Thank you for these good points I did not think about!

But in the case of the Pendragon the speaker came into production in 2013, and I ordered mine in 2016, I believe one of the last ones to be manufactured before it was discontinued.

In the case of the AS-2000 I kept prodding David for one of the last manufactured ones, but he kept assuring me that each one was made absolutely identically, and that the 12th one is identical in every way to the first one.

So I guess this means that even in the context of extremely small production runs, I still prefer not having one of the very first ones made.

You make a good point that I did not think of, but I would like to take credit for: you are right that I was willing to order big, expensive, low volume components as an early adopter based on personal auditioning, but without the comfort of prior reviewer blessing or prior peer acceptance.

 

[Ron Resnick]

WellI thought Ron cared about “What’s best” not what’s priciest.

+1

 

[PeterA]

In the case of the AS-2000 I kept prodding David for one of the last manufactured ones, but he kept assuring me that each one was made absolutely identically and the 10th one is identical in every way to the first one.

I have serial number 10 out of 12. Double digits.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have serial number 10 out of 12. Double digits.

Thank you for correcting me.

 

[Ron Resnick]

These are show demos. Stavros owns the Galder himself.

I did not know that. That is a big endorsement for the Bergmann Galder!

Apparently the Signature improvements to the Galder and the Signature improvements to the Odin primarily address your bass weight and shyness critiques.

I have always liked the Galder (with Opus 1) sound-wise, design-wise, and looks-wise. Keith and I have heard it with Alma several times and our friend, Danny, had one Galder and two Odins. Plus the Odin gets me my linear-tracker.

It is a beautifully-designed and made integrated solution. Can it scale the heights of the AS-2000?

I have spent a long time thinking about the Signature Galder and the Signature Odin. Philip O'Hanlon is now the distributor for Bergmann, so there is that inviting connection as well.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Keep in mind, gentlemen, please, that the cartridges are locked in: ZYX UNIverse Premium and Grado Epoch 3.

Absent direct comparison I concede that this is somewhat, but not entirely, psychological: I am more comfortable with cartridges and tonearms and turntables and cartridge/tonearm combinations that I have heard and played with than ones I have zero experience with.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Of the new crop of expensive, exotic turntables I do find the Nagra pretty interesting. But it is awfully expensive.

The new Acoustical Systems A*Stellar looks very interesting to me (if a little complicated), but presently is an unknown quantity sonically.

 

[bonzo75]

I did not know that. That is a big endorsement for the Bergmann Galder!

Why - how do you know Stavros' primary interest is not digital? Lukasz owns Sikora, I think, and Dartzeel owns EMT 930, and each designer owns something different. If you check what Mayer, Ralph of Cessaro, your Gryphon designer etc owns, or what Lamm owned, I am sure you will come up with a whole list enough to make a sub forum where designers can debate among themselves whose TT is best. Just keep TT designers out of there and in the amp or speaker forum. Designers and distributors sometimes swap too, you take what I design and give me that amp/preamp whatever that you design/distribute. So what any designer owns is usually no endorsement of anything. I do know that Marc Gomez recommended Brinkmann Balance to a couple of his high value TT buying clients as punching way above its price One of those was Tang, back in the day when he was in the market looking at Techdas.

And while I love the Red Sparrow LT strategy that Stavros uses, it is a very specific strategy that will work very well in his SET horn based system, that might not work in yours.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Why - how do you know Stavros' primary interest is not digital?

OMG, you're right, that's possible. But that would be heartbreaking!

Did I ask Stavros about analog versus digital in the interview?

 

[bonzo75]

OMG, you're right, that's possible. But that would be heartbreaking!

Did I ask Stavros about analog versus digital in the interview?

I only listen to your music videos Ron I have given up n talk videos. That’s with all talk videos

 

[Argonaut]

I think Brinkmann Balance is a great table at a lower price than the expensive ones that even when not better than some expensive ones on X or Y or Z attribute, is a sufficiently good and complete table for the owner to be satisfied and to now focus on records

Lotus have the following Pre-Loved listed atm:

Brinkmann Balance + 12.1 Tonearm (ex demo, as new)	£14,995
Brinkmann RoNt III tube power supply (ex demo, as new)	£3800

 

[PeterA]

Thank you for correcting me.

No correction, Ron. I was just pointing out the coincidence of you mentioning number 10 and it happening to be the last one that was available at the time in the factory so I was able to get it.

I believe David that these turntables are all identical. The only slight difference is that some were ordered with special custom arm boards for particular tonearms that do not have the SMB mount cut out.

 

[Kingrex]

The other thing is the signal path. Analogphiles get that if they had a great analog set up, but a digital crossover, their analog playback will be compromised. So they keep passive crossovers in the interest of purity. However, a step further is that complicated circuitry, crossover, and cabling is the equivalent of a digital crossover in killing analog nuances. Therefore I believe in keeping a simple signal path (e.g. First order crossover, very simple circuit no feedback amps, etc. High sensitivity and impedance matched, all drivers firing in the same direction (preferably only 2 max), time aligned). The simpler the signal path, the less is the delta in tables just by going up on an attribute. It is then more important the analog synergy set up sounds right as compared to doing more on some bass or treble axis, as these things get maxed out very fast in such good systems.

I have been under a lot.of pressure with another group to multi amp with class d like Atmasphere and use a Mini DSP SHD. I do wonder if getting all that metal out of the signal path won't make a large improvement. I am told, people with vinyl prefer the active crossover and do not perceive it as a loss of analog. Just an improvement in overall system playback. I'm very unsure. And I don't like having to purchase 2 more stereo amps to bring it all together.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have been under a lot.of pressure with another group to multi amp with class d like Atmasphere and use a Mini DSP SHD. I do wonder if getting all that metal out of the signal path won't make a large improvement. I am told, people with vinyl prefer the active crossover and do not perceive it as a loss of analog. Just an improvement in overall system playback. I'm very unsure. And I don't like having to purchase 2 more stereo amps to bring it all together.

No reason to succumb to peer pressure!

I happen to agree, all else being equal, with Kedar's (and Brad's and Peter's and Tim's, et al) simple circuit, first-order crossover, non-multi-way driver ethos.

 

[rando]

Ron,

Having pushed this button with you numerous times in recent months it should come as no surprise.

Why don't you and Matej set up a review sample TT with shortlist of manufacturers to consider.

No reason to succumb to peer pressure!