Ron’s New System

[DasguteOhr]

The gain is adjustable between zero and 86dB.

Volume control? I hope they aren't a signal path (as a shunt) otherwise that would be a bad idea.

I understand this high-end audio objective. It just does not happen to be my personal objective.

That has nothing to do with high end, I just want to hear everything that's on the LP, whether it's good or bad is. We have different ways of listening to music.have fun

 

[Ron Resnick]

I just want to hear everything that's on the LP, whether it's good or bad is. We have different ways of listening to music.have fun

Fair enough. Thank you! You too!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Stock Sovtek 12AX7LPs are back in Io V1 and V2, and everything is quiet again.

I swapped out the Sovtek 6SN7s and put in Raytheon small bottle 6SN7s. Maybe I am hearing a touch more upper bass and a very slightly wider soundstage?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think I'm dropping the idea of any acoustic treatment on the front wall.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Today I listened to Elton John Greatest Hits (DCC Compact Classics); Red Hot Ray Brown Trio; Red Hot Chili Peppers ("RHCP") "Dani California," "Snow Hey Oh," and "Hard to Concentrate" (my favorite RHCP song); and about two hours of Famous Blue Raincoat for the pressing comparison.

A bright recording sounds a bit bright, a warm recording sounds warm. I'd say the whole shebang is sounding pretty Goldilocks.

The ASC "Resnick-ator" TubeTraps should be arriving later this week. They will replace the standard TubeTraps in the front corners of the room. Those standard TubeTraps could be placed behind the ribbon panels, diffusion side out.

But I am thinking I don't need anything on the front wall -- which is where I wanted to be in the first place, and which is where I always was with prior dipole planar speakers.

 

[PeterA]

Ron, what about the fuzzy round pedestal for your goddess of music that I saw in a recent photograph directly in the center of the front wall?

What led to your decision to not want any treatment on the front wall? I assume it is what you are hearing, but could you be a little bit more specific?

 

[abeidrov]

Stock Sovtek 12AX7LPs are back in Io V1 and V2, and everything is quiet again.

I swapped out the Sovtek 6SN7s and put in Raytheon small bottle 6SN7s. Maybe I am hearing a touch more upper bass and a very slightly wider soundstage?

Have you tried Teles in the V1 and V2? There are also V3, V4, V5 and V6 to experiment)

 

[Ron Resnick]

Have you tried Teles in the V1 and V2?

No; I may at some point in the future but I suspect that virtually no NOS will be as quiet as what Jim put in there himself.

There are also V3, V4, V5 and V6 to experiment)

This I am likely to try at some point!

I have Raytheon short bottles in V8. I ordered NOS Amperex USN CEP 7308s for V7.

PS: I acquired most of these NOS tubes for Io in 2017. It took six years to get the stereo up and running, and then it took a few months for me to get in the mood to play with tube swapping in the Io. I have done some playing, and now I feel like I want to be "pencils down."

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, what about the fuzzy round pedestal for your goddess of music that I saw in a recent photograph directly in the center of the front wall?

Yes, I am using an ASC TubeTrap as a pedestal.

If you are asking why it is still there if I feel like I don't want any acoustic treatment on the front wall anymore, the answer is because I don't hear that one TubeTrap doing anything sonically. If it's doing a tiny bit of diffusion on the front wall, that's fine with me. I don't hear it, and I need a pedestal for Saraswati.

I think she has quietly been guiding me in this direction over the last few months of room "tuning." It would be easier if she just said offered explicit suggestions.

What led to your decision to not want any treatment on the front wall? I assume it is what you are hearing, but could you be a little bit more specific?

"Decision" sounds too definitive.

I report on a stream-of-consciousness basis my vacillating views on the acoustic treatment question. Over the last few weeks the direction on a net basis has been less treatment on the front wall.

I am trying to solve for whatever sounds more natural to me. If a jazz recording sounds a bit lifeless or over-damped that is not good. If a piano sounds weirdly shrill that is not good.

If a female vocalist sounds edgy compared to how she sounded on a composite memory basis from hearing her many dozens of other times in dozens of other systems that is not good.

If Elton John sounds a bit tired compared to how he sounded many dozens of other times in my systems over the years that is not good.

Using jazz and classical I am trying to triangulate on what sound is the most natural to me. Using rock and pop I am trying to triangulate on my composite memory of how that recording sounds on many different systems, and on many different playbacks on my own systems.

I do not want to "tune" the acoustic treatment or the system to make a bright recording sound not bright, or to make a dull recording sound lively. We are not trying to solve for one recording. So I think it's a process to make the acoustic treatment and the system sound as natural as possible on as many different genres of music and types of recordings as possible.

 

[Lagonda]

Yes, I am using an ASC TubeTrap as a pedestal.

If you are asking why it is still there if I feel like I don't want any acoustic treatment on the front wall anymore, the answer is because I don't hear that one TubeTrap doing anything sonically. If it's doing a tiny bit of diffusion on the front wall, that's fine with me. I don't hear it, and I need a pedestal for Saraswati.

I think she has quietly been guiding me in this direction over the last few months of room "tuning." It would be easier if she just said offered explicit suggestions.

"Decision" sounds too definitive.

I report on a stream-of-consciousness basis my vacillating views on the acoustic treatment question. Over the last few weeks the direction on a net basis has been less treatment on the front wall.

I am trying to solve for whatever sounds more natural to me. If a jazz recording sounds a bit lifeless or over-damped that is not good. If a piano sounds weirdly shrill that is not good.

If a female vocalist sounds edgy compared to how she sounded on a composite memory basis from hearing her many dozens of other times in dozens of other systems that is not good.

If Elton John sounds a bit tired compared to how he sounded many dozens of other times in my systems over the years that is not good.

Using jazz and classical I am trying to triangulate on what sound is the most natural to me. Using rock and pop I am trying to triangulate on my composite memory of how that recording sounds on many different systems, and on many different playbacks on my own systems.

I do not want to "tune" the acoustic treatment or the system to make a bright recording sound not bright, or to make a dull recording sound lively. We are not trying to solve for one recording. So I think it's a process to make the acoustic treatment and the system sound as natural as possible on as many different genres of music and types of recordings as possible.

If Elton John sounds a bit tired, it just means he had a rough night !

 

[Mendel]

Have you tried Teles in the V1 and V2? There are also V3, V4, V5 and V6 to experime

As mentioned, the first phono gain stage tubes in a phono based system make the biggest difference of any of the tubes in the system. Given the cost of your gear, the cost of the dedicated room, etc it is almost unimaginable to me that you would settle for Sovtec LPS tubes for this critical spot. They may be quiet, but they are not the best sounding 12ax7 by a long shot.
What makes you think the Sovtecs must be quieter than the best NOS tubes? Do you think the Russians produce higher quality tubes than the German craftsman that produced Teles during the golden age of tube making?

 

[Ron Resnick]

What makes you think the Sovtecs must be quieter than the best NOS tubes?

I never wrote they "must be quieter."

I wrote: "I may at some point in the future [swap in the Telefunkens] but I suspect that virtually no NOS will be as quiet as what Jim put in there himself."

For whatever reason with the Io wide-open the Sovteks seem almost impossibly quiet. Don is surprised too.

Swapping in the Telefunkens would be decisive, and then we would know for sure. As I wrote, I may do that in the future.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Sovtec LPS tubes . . . may be quiet, but they are not the best sounding 12ax7 by a long shot.

I agree. Sonically I assume I would prefer NOS in V1 and V2.

But sound quality is not the only consideration. Noise level is also a big consideration. The background tube noise level affects my suspension of disbelief.

On the Mullards, the trade-off was not favorable for me. Completely making up numbers I preferred the Mullard tonal richness sound by 10%, but it was not worth a 50% increase in noise.

PS: Nobody who uses a step-up transformer is likely to truly understand this trade-off analysis.

 

[Argonaut]

The gain is adjustable between zero and 86dB.

In which case you may be able to offset the slightly less tube gain in utilising 5751’s in V1 V2 etc , this would open up a whole other world of tubes for you to roll

 

[Kcin]

I never wrote they "must be quieter."

I wrote: "I may at some point in the future [swap in the Telefunkens] but I suspect that virtually no NOS will be as quiet as what Jim put in there himself."

For whatever reason with the Io wide-open the Sovteks seem almost impossibly quiet. Don is surprised too.

Swapping in the Telefunkens would be decisive, and then we would know for sure. As I wrote, I may do that in the future.

Ron,

If it is a matter of convenience, then the Sovteks will be your tube. They can be remarkably quiet in their current iteration ( they had a spell in production where they were not quiet enough) .However, if you want to maximize your performance and sonic traits that you value - you will put selected Telefunkens in V1, V2 . I have talked about the attributes of this tube in these positions before- I won't bother with the hyperbole.

This means you will have to pay to get selected tubes or get the equipment to select them yourself. I use a Vacuum Tube Valley analyzer and the Maximatcher small signal tube tester. There really is no guess work- the Io has been around a long time and the consensus is clear from many sophisticated users Telefunkens work well and ,if selected , are quiet in V1,V2--- they pay dividends there in the Io. The experimentation has been completed by many users over many years.

If you would of asked me about your Mullards in the position you tried in the Io I would of saved you some time

The effort it takes to swap 4 tubes out is minimal you should try it soon!

 

[Ron Resnick]

As mentioned, the first phono gain stage tubes in a phono based system make the biggest difference of any of the tubes in the system. Given the cost of your gear, the cost of the dedicated room, etc it is almost unimaginable to me that you would settle for Sovtec LPS tubes for this critical spot. They may be quiet, but they are not the best sounding 12ax7 by a long shot.

When the 1mV output Grado Epoch 3 gets installed on my Reed 5T I may return to playing with NOS tubes in the V1 - V6. 1mV output should take a lot of pressure off any NOS tube noise issue.

 

[Ron Resnick]

If you would of asked me about your Mullards in the position you tried in the Io I would of saved you some time

Thank you.

Why do you not like Mullards in V1 and V2?

What sound do you get from Telefunkens that makes you like them in V1 and V2?

 

[Kcin]

Thank you.

Why do you not like Mullards in V1 and V2?

What sound do you get from Telefunkens that makes you like them in V1 and V2?

Hi Ron,

I find the Telefunkens exceedingly more linear than the Mullards. They are not plump or rich like the Mullards I have tried in that position.

I have resigned myself to understand that all systems have some sort of personality. If I were to express my preference it would be for a slightly more warm illusion than washed clean. The Mullards go too far for me-- The telefunkens just seem to work given the direction of my system and where the Io falls on this spectrum.

I totally get that folks just want to listen to music and not fuss. The Sovteks work for that exceedingly well. I still have enough energy to fuss through all this and get what I think is the last bit of performance out of a great product like the Io- so I keep doing it until I run out of telefunkens!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron,

I find the Telefunkens exceedingly more linear than the Mullards. They are not plump or rich like the Mullards I have tried in that position.

I have resigned myself to understand that all systems have some sort of personality. If I were to express my preference it would be for a slightly more warm illusion than washed clean. The Mullards go too far for me-- The telefunkens just seem to work given the direction of my system and where the Io falls on this spectrum.

I totally get that folks just want to listen to music and not fuss. The Sovteks work for that exceedingly well. I still have enough energy to fuss through all this and get what I think is the last bit of performance out of a great product like the Io- so I keep doing it until I run out of telefunkens!

Thank you!

I was surprised that the Mullards were too "plump and rich" for me! Far worse than that, they gave the music a bit of Valium.

I'm afraid the Telefunkens will be too "linear" for me. Does Amperex split the sonic baby between Telefunken and Mullard? (More neutral than Mullard, but a touch warmer and richer than Telefunken?)

 

[bonzo75]

I'm afraid the Telefunkens will be too "linear" for me.

It just does not work this way - if Kcin is saying experienced IO users have verified and many of them have found that to their liking, the only way to find out if it does it for you is to try it, and not to go by such theory. You just cannot sum up warm and neutral and linear theoretically to get to the right balance