Ron's Speaker, Turntable, Power and Room Treatment Upgrades

[Lagonda]

The Mapleknoll is a great performer!

Yes, if you ordered your Eclipse with 2 inputs. If this is the case, you will have the option to alter each phono input load independently albeit inside on the back chassis.

Well, you have take a leap of faith with ordering and not hearing first.. don't judge the unit until after at least 400 hrs. Its break in is a long one. It will sound thin at first and go through different strange phases.

Your best bet is to get reverse RIAA unit-- they are inexpensive--- and run a CD player , tuner or server through it for 3 weeks or so. KAB, Hagerman and others sell them or if you are handy you can build one simply enough. Aesthetix say they put about 100hrs on the units before they leave.

Sure the stock tubes are fine, but NOS takes it to a different level. When you are ready for that let me know and I can give you some tips.

Thank you, i will take you up on tube advice once i have gotten the handle of sound with stock tubes. As for breaking it in, that is already done.
I purchased it used from a audio dealership in Sweden with the memorable
name “Old School HiFi” . As i live in neighboring Denmark i though a afternoon drive for testing and pickup was the way to go, but realized the shop was
located 14 Hours away, close to Finland in reindeer territory. They have heavy snowfall right now, and my reindeer is being repaired, so driving was not an option ! I am not a trusting soul when it comes to bying used but have seen this
dealer advertise rare gear before, and realized he was a customer of my
friend Björn Haglund, the best audio repair tech in Scandinavia.
Björn, a retired nuclear equipment testing expert, wouched for him and a deal
was struck. It is the latest model with low hours and has some warranty.
As it is the model without volume control or extra input i will probably send it to
Aesthetix for upgrade, as it is hopefully a notch above my current preamps.
I will report my impressions when i recieve it.

 

[Ron Resnick]

A set of ML Statements E2 for sale on Audiogon right now, use the sub towers
in your system Ron ! I know you are a Martin Logan guy at heart.

I have been in correspondence with this ML E2 fellow. Would you believe those speakers are for his second system?!?! His main system uses MBL X-Tremes!

 

[Ron Resnick]

I am actively working on getting used Parasound JC1s. Lloyd promised me that he will deploy his skill at purchasing used high-end components at a discount to source for me a pair of used but mint Wilson Audio Subsonics for Christmas 2020. (Don’t tell David but I have to have plenty of time for David to massage the AS-2000 and tonearms and cartridges long before the Wilson Audio infrasonic system* arrives.)

Now I have to find two used but mint Wilson Audio Watch Controllers.

*I think a lot of my “girl with guitar” tracks have 16Hz pipe organ.

 

[asiufy]

Ron,
I believe Paragon has a pair of JC-1, at least it was in their Feb. newsletter. Give them a call!


alex

 

[Lagonda]

I have been in correspondence with this ML E2 fellow. Would you believe those speakers are for his second system?!?! His main system uses MBL X-Tremes!

So he did buy a pair ! He said he might a year or two ago when he had them up for sale the last time. He was not even sure he wanted to sell the Statements back then. That room is a nice size to. I wish i had the $room for two systems
like that. And of course he prefers the Audio Research amps on the main towers
and my measly 9011 are doing bass duties. But his X-tremes are probably
running all MBL amps.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron,
I believe Paragon has a pair of JC-1, at least it was in their Feb. newsletter. Give them a call!


alex

I spoke to them. Thank you, Alex!

 

[garylkoh]

1) It is about big; it is not about expensive for me. I wish the Wilson Audio Subsonics were priced like RELs!

2) I don’t think big drivers stuffed into small boxes and using EQ driven by kilowatts of Class D plate amps is the correct, organic and natural way to generate sub-20Hz infrasonic energy.

3) I believe in line sources, or systems which are effectively line sources, at all frequencies. I don’t believe in generating low frequencies from boxes just a little bit above the floor.

I would recommend against matching a ported subwoofer to the Pendragon woofer towers. It's impossible to create a line-source subwoofer in any residential space or close to impossible unless you live in a castle with a large enough ballroom (30-ft ceilings). However, I feel that it's the vertical distribution of points of bass that will give you what you want. Hence, a swarm of subwoofers.

You could probably buy 20 of these:
http://rythmikaudio.com/F18.html

 

[Folsom]

20, HA, easy Gary, one step toward crazed audiophile hermit at a time.... (I would note my trusted friend would say Funk > Rythmic, considerbaly so)

I take it you’re suggesting to stack them? Herzans between each?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you very much, Gary, for weighing in. I am always grateful for your valuable advice!

I assume you mean horizontal distribution, rather than vertical distribution?

So even with a low pass crossover to the Wilson Audio Subsonics set at 30Hz with an 18dB per octave slope you think the port of the subwoofers creates an incompatibility with the sealed Pendragon woofer towers?

 

[Folsom]

Thank you very much, Gary, for weighing in. I am always grateful for your valuable advice!

I assume you mean horizontal distribution, rather than vertical distribution?

So even with a low pass crossover to the Wilson Audio Subsonics set at 30Hz with an 18dB per octave slope you think the port of the subwoofers creates an incompatibility with the sealed Pendragon woofer towers?

They will have a difference in decay pattern. It probably would be better with a lower slope (portred subs) then at 18db because they won’t meld together well and the difference will probably be more attention grabbing.

Personally I find that very low frequencies from tall subwoofers in tower formation can kind of feel like a massage you can’t hear, and also don’t really want - sometimes, not all albums.

 

[garylkoh]

With a swarm, I recommend 3D distribution. Both vertical and horizontal distribution of bass delivery - especially since you will have line-source loudspeakers.

I think that the ported subwoofer would smear the excellent bass of the Pendragon woofer towers.

@Folsom - Ron is referring to a -18dB/octave low-pass to the ported subwoofer.

 

[Folsom]

@garylkoh Would elevating some subwoofers instead of stacking them work? And I do mean by a limited amount, just to change things up a little from all being on the floor. Because at some point you'd otherwise have so many towers in the room it'd be like walking through a speaker forest and they'd be in the way of the fullrange waves.

At -18db/octave low-pass to the ported subwoofers you'd have a near impossible time getting integration. The difference in sound would be fairly stark at the meeting point. The only chance you have is to lower that slope and adjust phase so they meld together. But as you say, even doing that you'll smear the more articulate bass of the Pendragon's woofer towers.

Ron, there just isn't a way to make a ported subwoofer be as articulate in such low octaves. If you think about what you have in the box with say a 100ft long wavelength that is resonating back and forth between the drivers and the ports... Your output may be very impressive, but the stop-go function cannot turn on a dime by any means. Now this may be beneficial to match the Wilson speakers that are also ported, so that they sound the same with great umph, and it may not sound "sloppy" but it won't sound like sealed. The subwoofers lack of control in porting can help when you have an amplifier that has too much bad damping that makes them sound artificially clinical. These are all odd games to play when you can just go high damping in a sealed box and drive them harder to make up for the difference in non-EQ'd FR extension (Rythmic, SVS, Funk, etc).

 

[spiritofmusic]

How low do the Pendragon towers go?

 

[Folsom]

How low do the Pendragon towers go?

16hz, but it's room dependent. And any speaker with only two poles in the room will have somewhat limited performance because of the lengths of the frequencies. You have to increase the amount of poles to offset the effects of the boundaries, to get it to smooth out. Well, sometimes the stars align so that you get amazing bass response without extra poles, but not many of us are that lucky. And a lot of people play the subs way too loud to try and correct the problems of placing them symmetrically with too few poles. .

 

[garylkoh]

I wouldn't stack the 15-inch subs. I would elevate some of the swarm. Even have one up near the ceiling if possible. I was being facetious when I said 20. I don't think that he will need more than 3 to 5 pieces.

If Ron low-passes the swarm at 28Hz, we are talking about a 40ft wavelength. They should be tuned to support and not overwhelm the main speakers - which means that you should not hear them.

 

[Folsom]

Ok, whew!

I agree, you don't want them to make themselves known. That's the power of the swarm integration, that you can't get with a pair. A pair will mean you'll have more peaks and nulls so that they are readily obviously playing or add nearly nothing. A swarm lets you know how important it is, and how much you need it, when you listen to a song and then midway through turn them off... You'll immediately be like "WhoAA! Turn THOSE BACK ON!" But prior to that you didn't listen to them playing.

But near the ceiling he says... interesting. Sounds fun. I bet Funk would make a custom unit that was super tall... In fact they'd probably make any height you want.

 

[Ron Resnick]

 

[Ron Resnick]

 

[ddk]

Real beautiful Ron!
david

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you, David! I know you like the natural walnut, but I am still planning to stain it gray.