Ron's Speaker, Turntable, Power and Room Treatment Upgrades

[Ron Resnick]

There is plenty of life beyond the four walls of the listening room. Sometimes its rewarding to get out and hear some actual live music in a hall somewhere. Or you can travel to hear and play with other people's systems like Kedar does.

I have been enjoying immensely and repeatedly my five minute Uber ride proximity to Walt Disney Concert Hall!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Wait till you have kids, Ked

That is not a problem. The kids can live in the basement.

The “family room” can be combined with the living room to create a large, dedicated listening room. Retractable, lockable walls on each open side can be used to keep the kids out of the listening room.

 

[bonzo75]

I have been enjoying immensely and repeatedly my five minute Uber ride proximity to Walt Disney Concert Hall!

Classical sounds better if you walk to venue. Barbican, Royal festival hall, and royal opera house are a 25 min walk for me, and wigmore hall is one hour.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Now that we are actually seeing progress, what's the projected move in date?

Sometime in the second half of this year.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

That is not a problem. The kids can live in the basement.

The “family room” can be combined with the living room to create a large, dedicated listening room. Retractable, lockable walls on each open side can be used to keep the kids out of the listening room.

Hehe. I do have locks on my music room door

 

[bonzo75]

Hehe. I do have locks on my music room door

As long as they don't put locks on the outside of that door

 

[Audiophile Bill]

As long as they don't put locks on the outside of that door

Hey Ked. I would very happily be locked in my hifi room by my family

 

[spiritofmusic]

So Bill, everything I hear about how adept modern kids are ie they can operate a computer in their sleep etc, have you let your's loose on setting up an lp on yr Vyger, installing a cart, cleaning yr lps?

 

[Audiophile Bill]

So Bill, everything I hear about how adept modern kids are ie they can operate a computer in their sleep etc, have you let your's loose on setting up an lp on yr Vyger, installing a cart, cleaning yr lps?

They can dance in there under supervision. Amazing the music they dance to - Sonny Stitt was the latest.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Doesn't Tang let his cleaner dance in his audio den/office?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I am thinking about buying a pair of used Parasound JC-1* mono amplifiers just on the teeny-tiny off chance I ever find a pair of used Wilson Audio Master Subsonic subwoofers.

*David Wilson’s choice of amplifier to drive his subwoofers is good enough for me.

 

[PeterA]

Ron, when you auditioned the Pendragons, was their output augmented by subwoofers?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, when you auditioned the Pendragons, was their output augmented by subwoofers?

No, there are no subwoofers at Gryphon Audio. It never would have occurred to me to even consider subwoofers, as the eight 8” drivers of the Pendragon woofer tower have the same surface area as two and one-quarter 15” drivers.

But then I heard MikeL’s four 15” drivers X 2, Audioquattr’s 16” + 16” + 18” drivers X 2, and a friend’s RELs on top of subwoofer towers, and until I read about Arnie’s (in Texas) dual subwoofers with Rockport Arrakis, and Wilson Master Chronosonics with Master Subsonics.

The closet analogue (no pun intended) would be a friend’s RELs on top of subwoofer towers. The RELs provided a kind of low frequency foundation to the whole sound-stage that I found desirable. Interestingly, this friend’s room, like my room, has large openings on each side wall. I theorize that a listening room with large openings results in the room having a different ability to absorb (and release) low frequency information than is the case with a sealed room.

Similar to the way it turns out that there is phase information above 18 kHz which we don’t hear directly but somehow perceive (per Sean Casey), I think there is infrasonic information below 20 Hz which we might not hear directly but which somehow contributes to a more believable sonic experience.

MikeL may be able to elaborate on this, as his system is down like only -3dB at 10 Hz, or something wild like that.

 

[microstrip]

I am thinking about buying a pair of used Parasound JC-1* mono amplifiers just on the teeny-tiny off chance I ever find a pair of used Wilson Audio Master Subsonic subwoofers.

*David Wilson’s choice of amplifier to drive his subwoofers is good enough for me.

Nice, at less I can be sure I will not be bidding against you on a pair of Wilson Audio Thors Hammer one of these days!

BTW, I already got a pair of mint used JC-1's ...

 

[Folsom]

The RELs provided a kind of low frequency foundation to the whole sound-stage that I found desirable.

So why not go with a swarm setup? They're considerably better for not having peaks and valleys in the very low registers. They're intended to do exactly what you're saying, a foundation, a way to involve you and keep you in the moment with the music.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Nice, at less I can be sure I will not be bidding against you on a pair of Wilson Audio Thors Hammer one of these days!

BTW, I already got a pair of mint used JC-1's ...

Oooh! So you are planning to upgrade to a pair of Thors? That would be some serious woofing going on in your system, with XLFs already having big drivers!

 

[Ron Resnick]

So why not go with a swarm setup? They're considerably better for not having peaks and valleys in the very low registers. They're intended to do exactly what you're saying, a foundation, a way to involve you and keep you in the moment with the music.

In concept, a fair point. But I cannot afford two Wilson Audio Master Subsonics; therefore a fortiori I cannot afford three or four Wilson Audio Master Subsonics.

 

[Lagonda]

In concept, a fair point. But I cannot afford two Wilson Audio Master Subsonics; therefore a fortiori I cannot afford three or four Wilson Audio Master Subsonics.

That would not be a swarm Ron, that would be a herd !

 

[Folsom]

In concept, a fair point. But I cannot afford two Wilson Audio Master Subsonics; therefore a fortiori I cannot afford three or four Wilson Audio Master Subsonics.

I have no idea why they have to be the biggest most expensive subwoofers you can find. Because of the range they're in, the quality of the subwoofer isn't like it would be if they played higher. I'd argue it's just be silly to use really big ones, when smaller long throw ones can be EQ'd to do the same thing. When we're talking about notes that are tens of feet long themselves, you just aren't playing the same game. I'd look at Duke Lajunes version, and ask him if your room could use something bigger. They're nice because they're basically invisible to the room to begin with (you don't see them). Frankly I think if you had 2 of the Master Chronosonics, 2 Gryphon bass towers, 2 Gryphon panel towers... you'd probably end up selling the giant sub towers as the visual would be so overwhelming you'd have trouble listening to music because of a mix of self conscious "am I the American version of the totally crazy audiophile that's a little too eccentric so people make YouTube videos about them..." and the awkwardness of seeing so many towers.

Really, I'm not trying to argue against having the BEST there is, but rather that I can't imagine a more awkward listening space that 4 asymmetrically placed giant subwoofer tower, let alone 6 towers, just to get the low fundamental ambiance. IMO it'd be far from the best. But if the room is too big, I'd look at more compact things that can be EQ'd. Duke's, which could be powered by the JC1's, or even Funk's which are compact for 18's. Then just use a crossover to keep them very low and EQ'd to liking. The presence of sound from them means significantly more than if they get loud or not, really. They don't need to play with "slam" or anything.

And if you think about it, having 2 extra towers isn't exactly all that different from what the Pendragons will be. But fighting room nodes and peaks with 4 subs of some kind would be, for that real low end stuff. They could actually compliment the Pendragons, even with a bit of overlap if the phasing and placement isn't working as well for the Pendragons in the lowest octaves.

 

[Ron Resnick]

1) It is about big; it is not about expensive for me. I wish the Wilson Audio Subsonics were priced like RELs!

2) I don’t think big drivers stuffed into small boxes and using EQ driven by kilowatts of Class D plate amps is the correct, organic and natural way to generate sub-20Hz infrasonic energy.

3) I believe in line sources, or systems which are effectively line sources, at all frequencies. I don’t believe in generating low frequencies from boxes just a little bit above the floor.