It'a ok #9. They say people give up waiting for a download after about three minutes. I gave it five and moved on to read something else. No problem. This morning I came back to see I was accused of being a dog. Pretty funny.
The images are loaded up now and I can see them. Lovely floor. Congratulations on the finish. I think it would be nice if Ron's guys are able to do something similar.
Ahh, I didn’t even consider the time aspect wrt to viewing/downloading larger photos. I was thinking why in the world would anyone complain about a photo being too big. I don’t have this problem but will try to remember next time I post photo.
Servers don't always want to transmit so much data when they usually are dong a few kb. You can select smaller resolutions for uploading to the net to just show people stuff. (you can convert to, but the programs might have a small learning curve). Some forums will display them full sized, so you can only see a quarter of the image at a time if you don't have a large monitor - if they don't then they may spend a lot of time converting them to a viewable size. It's just better in general not to use as large of photos.
I would recommend against matching a ported subwoofer to the Pendragon woofer towers. It's impossible to create a line-source subwoofer in any residential space or close to impossible unless you live in a castle with a large enough ballroom (30-ft ceilings). However, I feel that it's the vertical distribution of points of bass that will give you what you want. Hence, a swarm of subwoofers.
Is your technical concern about the sealed woofer towers and the ported subwoofers about phase mismatch? That the 10Hz to 30Hz information coming from the ported subwoofers will not integrate properly with the 20Hz to 200Hz information coming from the sealed woofer towers because of differences in phase?
Oh no....not the walnut....lol
Ron make sure you test a good size sample first....once done you can’t go back, unless you have extra product.
Test a piece and you and your wife live with it for a few days....just a contractor giving his thoughts from experience. Btw if you have done this or similar please disregard. Looks amazing.
Thank you for asking. The listening room is the easy part of the repairs. The rest of the house is even less far along than the listening room. What can one expect in almost three years?
Your GC should pull all the permits or his subcontractors. The Architect generally oversees the work performed. Remember you are the boss and must be proactive. Unless the permit is involved with engineering ect. I have usually no problem with secondary permits pulled within a day or two.
This must not be just a remodel because some of the work can be done without a permit...classified as repair work. Good luck.
Of course electrical, plumbing, heating or structural would require permits per local code.
P.s. I have a few horror stories,most I consider out of my control. But in construction Murphy’s law is a live and well.
The architect was intended to have only limited involvement because he simply had to translate some images from a real architect into drawings that a general contractor could implement. Unfortunately the architect has been repeatedly MIA even with regard to this limited responsibility
I have been so proactive and involved in the weeds I should be getting a refund from the general contractor.
Is your technical concern about the sealed woofer towers and the ported subwoofers about phase mismatch? That the 10Hz to 30Hz information coming from the ported subwoofers will not integrate properly with the 20Hz to 200Hz information coming from the sealed woofer towers because of differences in phase?
I would like Gary to chime in, but I can tell you no. Phase mismatch? Phase is adjustable on subwoofers. This has nothing to do with phase. Ported subwoofers work by producing the sound from the driver, and a slightly delayed one from the port. They create a resonance between them that allows the driver to really move. The ported subwoofers are less defined than sealed by nature. It's inevitable when you have two acoustic sources slightly off time from each other. Your bass towers don't have that, but your subwoofers would? The sound can sometimes be very different which makes matching a losing game. One isn't right or wrong, as the ported clearly entertains people that want massive umph, and sealed can do well at everything but not with same sort of ominous pounding - yet it can be very articulate. Don't get me wrong, I've heard amazingly good, articulate, ported speakers but they still aren't sealed in sound.
We can pick up the differences in types of bass to a surprising degree, by ear. So unless you want to plug the ports, you may never get to any satisfaction. The Q of the boxes are unlikely made to be able to plug the ports. (some are, like the Swarm setup from AudioKensis has Q that goes either way) In general it just sounds like two different types of speakers between sealed and ported. What I really think is that Gary is concerned you might lose some of the magic that made you go with the Pendragons to begin with.
As far as phase goes, 30hz is 36.5ft long, image a sine wave that long. It's not a very hard target to compliment with the turn of a dial on a subwoofer amplifier's adjustable phase. You can do it by ear rather easily (and preferably). Where as if you're trying to match a tweeter and midrange phase at a crossover point you may never get there by ear as the length you're working in at say 5khz is only 2.7" inches for 360 degrees.
I suppose the other question is relating to the port-type design vs the sealed. I have to imagine driving a 15" driver inside even a big box that is sealed is going to have its own complications relating to distortion...as ever, the question is which method is better...and i 'guess?' the answer is whoever did better implementation of that particular design.
In the case of Wilson's Thor/WAMM subs, I have heard nothing but superlatives from serious old hands in the audiophile world who, over 30-40 years, have heard all manner of SOTA full-range systems in really big rooms (like Rons)...and all 5 of them said they'd never heard anything as impressive as the Thor sub for subterranean, controlled, effortless and tactile bass.
The architect was intended to have only limited involvement because he simply had to translate some images from a real architect into drawings that a general contractor could implement. Unfortunately the architect has been repeatedly MIA even with regard to this limited responsibility
I have been so proactive and involved in the weeds I should be getting a refund from the general contractor.
Well, I don't think I would... I think that's the point. I'm not hung up on philosophy. For me what works, works - even if philosophy is commonly paralleled. Although I did just dream up an entirely new subwoofer design...
Gary mentioned Rhythmic, which do fit the criteria except I don't know exactly how the box is made. They have adjustable Q on their better models, which will help you match the sound of your Pendragons if you want the subs playing higher. But I even think they are potentially overkill to fill that region. We are talking about music, not HT... But I'm going to do a little bit of investigation for you out of my own curiosity.
Overall I think what is going on here is members are trying to make you wary of what at least 3 if not several more members have gone through recently... spending lots of money on subwoofers just to realize their stereo didn't need them (or at least not the ones they went with).
More than anything that will effect the Bass SQ is your cables that you ordered. They will improve the dispersion pattern of the Pendragons.
My setup is similar to what your thinking about just much smaller I have 55” tall satellites using 8 total 6” mid woofers,which should be faster than my large driver subs.
Now if you ever decide to go down the grounding hole. The bass will be even more impressive.
With your large room that opens to other areas I think the extra subs would be a benefit if you listen to large scale music.
As the speakers and subs dispersion characteristics improve they integrate much better and require less volume thus improving overall system efficiency.
i guess the question is do you perceive that 2 towers (one by Wilson with 2 x 15" or 3 x 12" and the other by Goebel at 8 x 9") that is specifically limited to 15hz - 80hz different from each other? The bass towers from Gryphon may well have a similar design to one and not the other...but it is being direct very different in the design. By contrast, both the Wilson and the Baforce are being directed to focus on true subterranean bass, no?
Ron, what is the size of your room again, and how big are the areas open to the sides? I've been onto some thoughts about reason why you may/may not need to go with certain subwoofers setups.
I would like Gary to chime in, but I can tell you no. Phase mismatch? Phase is adjustable on subwoofers. This has nothing to do with phase. Ported subwoofers work by producing the sound from the driver, and a slightly delayed one from the port. They create a resonance between them that allows the driver to really move. The ported subwoofers are less defined than sealed by nature. It's inevitable when you have two acoustic sources slightly off time from each other. Your bass towers don't have that, but your subwoofers would? The sound can sometimes be very different which makes matching a losing game.
Folsom, thank you for your posts here. But I just realized that something does not make sense to me.
If your concern and Gary’s concern is the sonic mismatch between the sealed bass tower and the ported subwoofer because the ported subwoofer produces sound directly from the driver and also slightly delayed sound from the port, then why is not this even more of a problem with ported speakers and ported subs? There you have the direct sound produced by the driver of the speaker, the slightly delayed sound produced by the port of the speaker, the direct sound produced by the driver of the sub and the slightly delayed sound produced by the port of the sub; so you have four outputs to integrate instead of three.
Well, I don't think I would... I think that's the point. I'm not hung up on philosophy. For me what works, works - even if philosophy is commonly paralleled. Although I did just dream up an entirely new subwoofer design...
Gary mentioned Rhythmic, which do fit the criteria except I don't know exactly how the box is made. They have adjustable Q on their better models, which will help you match the sound of your Pendragons if you want the subs playing higher. But I even think they are potentially overkill to fill that region. We are talking about music, not HT... But I'm going to do a little bit of investigation for you out of my own curiosity.
Overall I think what is going on here is members are trying to make you wary of what at least 3 if not several more members have gone through recently... spending lots of money on subwoofers just to realize their stereo didn't need them (or at least not the ones they went with).
I have a theory, yet to be tested, that rooms with one or more large openings present very different low frequency wave absorption/handling characteristics than sealed rooms of the same size.
