Ron's Speaker, Turntable, Power and Room Treatment Upgrades

[Ron Resnick]

Happy Anniversary to you and Tinka.

Thank you, Jim, for being patient while I passed on giving it to her for Christmas or Valentine’s Day to wait for our anniversary..

 

[Ron Resnick]

1) I believe (theoretically, if not entirely) that a recording should be reproduced in the format in which it was natively recorded. (I know it sounds different, and maybe it sounds better, but I personally see no point in transferring a digital recording to vinyl and playing a record.)

2) Virtually all new rock and pop recordings today are recorded digitally.

3) If I want to maximize the playback fidelity of these new rock and pop recordings I have to be able to stream or play physically digital recordings.

4) Therefore, I think I have to get an MSB DAC.

 

[Folsom]

There are numerous albums that sound better on digital. But I’ve heard plenty of digital recordings that are best on vinyl.

You are not the first to have such philosophy, but it overlooks that the conversion process to analog for making vinyl is partly mechanical and superior to a stand alone DAC (at any price). But as I said not all albums are treated with great mastering and care so that it matters.

 

[microstrip]

1) I believe (theoretically, if not entirely) that a recording should be reproduced in the format in which it was natively recorded. (I know it sounds different, and maybe it sounds better, but I personally see no point in transferring a digital recording to vinyl and playing a record.)

Theoretical beliefs in the high-end?

But yes, there are several reasons why a vinyl LP may be preferred. The more limited bandwidth and smaller amount of information carried by vinyl can be preferred to digital.

2) Virtually all new rock and pop recordings today are recorded digitally.

Yes, and most current vinyl goes through digitization at some phase.

3) If I want to maximize the playback fidelity of these new rock and pop recordings I have to be able to stream or play physically digital recordings.

Analog fans will ask you if you do want to maximize fidelity or enjoyment - you can't maximize both.

4) Therefore, I think I have to get an MSB DAC.

Not therefore, but surely an excellent choice with the seal of approval of many of WBF members.

 

[ddk]

"... if you do want to maximize fidelity or enjoyment - you can't maximize both.

IMO this is a very important and often neglected point in high end audio Francisco! People are surprised when I regularly suggest a $300 Denon mini system over many well known high end electronics; I find that with the right speakers one can get a lot more enjoyment and musical satisfaction from the Denon than ever possible with many high end electronics and any speaker combination. I only judge value and make recommendations based on enjoyment and musical satisfaction. I disagree with you that one can't have both fidelity and enjoyment, your EMT 927 is a perfect example that when done right the equipment is both high fidelity and highly satisfying. Same reason why I only recommend Lamm and nothing else for the past 20 years to anyone with a high end budget, fidelity and extreme satisfaction. Of course with the same caveat for everything; when setup properly.

@Ron,
I tend to buy the CD if it's a digital recording simply because I don't get anymore enjoyment from the vinyl copy over the CD and a good transport which can sound really good and IMO sometimes even better than their vinyl pressings given the state of vinyl production these days.

david

 

[microstrip]

(...) I disagree with you that one can't have both fidelity and enjoyment, your EMT 927 is a perfect example that when done right the equipment is both high fidelity and highly satisfying. Same reason why I only recommend Lamm and nothing else for the past 20 years to anyone with a high end budget, fidelity and extreme satisfaction. Of course with the same caveat for everything; when setup properly.
(...)
david

The keyword in my answer and Ron question was "maximize" - my answer is linked to his original question. Surely you can have both, but you can't maximize both. My EMT is very good on fidelity - it measures very good, but most modern turntables measure a lot better.

On the same way, Lamm measures good, but not exceptional. But yes, they are highly enjoyable.

 

[ddk]

The keyword in my answer and Ron question was "maximize" - my answer is linked to his original question. Surely you can have both, but you can't maximize both. My EMT is very good on fidelity - it measures very good, but most modern turntables measure a lot better.

On the same way, Lamm measures good, but not exceptional. But yes, they are highly enjoyable.

I'm wondering if we have a vocabulary problem here, fidelity to me is tied to sonic quality and the way I'm reading this post you're tying it to measurements and numbers, correct?

Value of certain available measurements isn't in dispute but we still don't have a way to measure some parameters that lead to certain sonic outcome, in this case how can you tell if fidelity as you use it is maximized or not? Simple example is a difference in sound among tube brands, NOS and new. You only can measure a few standard parameters and use any of them in the circuit but we know that sonic attributes of each brand are very different, some can even be disgusting. So which is maximized?

david

 

[microstrip]

I'm wondering if we have a vocabulary problem here, fidelity to me is tied to sonic quality and the way I'm reading this post you're tying it to measurements and numbers, correct?

Value of certain available measurements isn't in dispute but we still don't have a way to measure some parameters that lead to certain sonic outcome, in this case how can you tell if fidelity as you use it is maximized or not?

david

Yes, IMHO Ron point 3) had bounded us to this nomenclature - using what we currently have, based in the terrible null test methodology.

 

[ddk]

Yes, IMHO Ron point 3) had bounded us to this nomenclature - using what we currently have, based in the terrible null test methodology.

So you were referring to the digital promise of "perfect" sound !

david

 

[spiritofmusic]

So you were referring to the digital promise of "perfect" sound !

david

Yes David. And not just perfect, but forever too.

 

[RogerD]

Just to share my thoughts about DACs and the high end...
I think the digital format is the most value based music reproduction system ever created. Capable of extreme fidelity at super low cost.
My digital system.....
Monarchy NM24 DAC and a Sony DVP 55 N transport. Digital continues to amaze me in every way. Congrats Ron...you won’t regret the move.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you for your thoughts, Francisco and David!

 

[ddk]

Thank you for your thoughts, Francisco and David!

You're welcome Ron and please note I omitted streaming and digital files from the enjoyable category !

david

 

[Ron Resnick]

At this point, David, as much as I like physical media, I think I would forgo the physical media, and focus on a high resolution streaming solution from Innuous.

 

[jep123]

Ron, exactly what I have done. I bought the Innuous Zenith mk3 with 2TB SSD disk and could not be happier. I am selling my CD transport and Dac and have ordered the Computer Audio Design dac. The CAD is optimized for streamers and has only USB input. I use Roon and Tidal hifi and have uploaded 1,2TB of music into the Innuous.

The Innous has an excellent ripper so I will continue to buy music. The sound is better when using the streamer, no doubt.

JP

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ron, I'd disagree w Jep. Properly consider running 4 formats, tt, tape, cdp and streaming. I've not yet heard a streamer other than SGM beat my Eera cdp. I still contend other than the very best (ie priciest) streamer/dac combos, a cdp still can't be beaten.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I had a Aqua Formula with Diva transport for a few months a while back when the Animas were at home on a happy stopover... just saying that the current streamer based solution that I have now is such a clear cut head and shoulders above that combination for me in every regard that I don’t even remotely look backwards now... and with the m scaler in even when just streaming versus playing hi-res files I am now unconcerned with pointless to me discussions about what is best let alone what is good enough.

Prior to the m scaler I was quite confident that a hi-res file based digital system was the future over spinners but now I have even been surprised how an optimised m scaler based system takes even streamed signals well beyond my previous spinner experiences into the realm of the truly thoroughly enjoyable and engagingly musical.

Beyond this... add the vast and immediate access to the impossibly great treasure of recorded musical moments available when now streaming makes spinning almost quaintly near pointless as far as I can tell and if you are going to have a moment of nostalgia with your physical media then probably just go straight to analogue I figure. The aluminium disc is perhaps imminently dead... just jkn Marc I do come at this also with an apples and oranges approach. There is no one best solution in anything really.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Graham, I'm sure when I finally get my streaming set up, there'll be a moment of clarity, where the combination of exponential expanse of music choice will coincide with an engaging sound, to sweep away objections to this direction.

I'm very familiar now w my l/t Eera cdp solution as well as Blue58's SGM2015 server on both T&A and Aqua Formula dacs, so have multiple comparison points.

I'm minded to go down the sonicTransporter i5/Sonore opticalRendu route for maximum bang on USB quality, and consider a range of dacs.

Graham, the broad ranging Audio Bacon review of Chord Hugo TT/Dave/MScaler makes fascinating reading.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I had a Aqua Formula with Diva transport for a few months a while back when the Animas were at home on a happy stopover... just saying that the current streamer based solution that I have now is such a clear cut head and shoulders above that combination for me in every regard that I don’t even remotely look backwards now... and with the m scaler in even when just streaming versus playing hi-res files I am now unconcerned with pointless to me discussions about what is best let alone what is good enough.

Prior to the m scaler I was quite confident that a hi-res file based digital system was the future over spinners but now I have even been surprised how an optimised m scaler based system takes even streamed signals well beyond my previous spinner experiences into the realm of the truly thoroughly enjoyable and engagingly musical.

Beyond this... add the vast and immediate access to the impossibly great treasure of recorded musical moments available when now streaming makes spinning almost quaintly near pointless as far as I can tell and if you are going to have a moment of nostalgia with your physical media then probably just go straight to analogue I figure. The aluminium disc is perhaps imminently dead... just jkn Marc I do come at this also with an apples and oranges approach. There is no one best solution in anything really.

i recall when i had the Aqua Formula and then acquired the La Diva transport; at first i agree that the spinning discs did not quite compete with my files or Tidal either. however; when i moved the La Diva to stacked above the Formula which was sitting on the Herzan TS-150 (dead stock and not the Tana version which did not yet exist) it brought the disc spinner essentially even with the files and streaming. and my SGM server was using HQPlayer and up-sampling then.

my point being that a modestly designed disc spinner will show it's limitations; but that spinning discs can also be very high performance. i'd wager the new MSB transports using the Pro dual I2s interface and sitting on a Taiko Tana platform would be awesome sounding.

currently i only spin discs for (mostly 4K) movies in my home theater room or when i'm ripping CD's for files......no spinning discs in my 2-channel room. but they can be very fine sounding. I do expect that my new Extreme server would be noticeably better though for files.....but maybe not streaming.

 

[the sound of Tao]

i recall when i had the Aqua Formula and then acquired the La Diva transport; at first i agree that the spinning discs did not quite compete with my files or Tidal either. however; when i moved the La Diva to stacked above the Formula which was sitting on the Herzan TS-150 (dead stock and not the Tana version which did not yet exist) it brought the disc spinner essentially even with the files and streaming. and my SGM server was using HQPlayer and up-sampling then.

my point being that a modestly designed disc spinner will show it's limitations; but that spinning discs can also be very high performance. i'd wager the new MSB transports using the Pro dual I2s interface and sitting on a Taiko Tana platform would be awesome sounding.

currently i only spin discs for (mostly 4K) movies in my home theater room or when i'm ripping CD's for files......no spinning discs in my 2-channel room. but they can be very fine sounding. I do expect that my new Extreme server would be noticeably better though for files.....but maybe not streaming.

I also found the diva very responsive to power, isolation and also to damping as the chassis rang a bit... but I only tried using footers but did run the whole thing with Shunyata cyclops and anaconda pc cables. I very much enjoyed it at the time and the Aqua combo opened my eyes to what good dig could be like. I’m sure your setup has the capacity to discover much more about what gear is really capable of.

Since going with the Sotm and then doing quite a bit of optimising of the setup and more recently adding the Hugo m scaler has especially pushed the standard of both files and very importantly streaming beyond anything I’ve had at home before. With regards to streaming I didn’t think what I have now was even possible.

Sonically it’s impressive but musically the level of engagement with the m scaler through either the Harbeths or the Horns and the SET is for me 100 per cent engaging whether coming off files or streaming. So for the last 6 months I just don’t think compulsively about the need to drive performance constantly further the way that I have for such a long long time (like most of us). Now I do it more out of curiousity or perhaps habit. I could easily stop now and just be happy playing music and enjoying the discovery of ever more music. This has been the real focus of my time ever since getting the m scaler which has opened up the potential of the rest of the system. Every session is just continuing musical joy.