Seismion - new active isolation platform from Germany

This is Sebastian from Seismion, I am going to add some aspects on active isolation of turn tables, since these devices benefit most from active isolation. First of all the unwanted self-noise or rumble will be reduced by an active isolator, since the active isolator is like a damper for vibration energy. This means the active isolator tries to stabilize its top plate by feedback control of the accelerometers mounted under the top plate. Any incoming vibration, from bottom or top is reduced! However, this ability is limited by its mechanics and electronics design. Some active isolators switch off when vibration (-rumble- in the turn table case) induced into the top plate gets to big.

The Reactio will counterforce even bigger rumble and depending on the kind of rumble reduce it respectively. This benefits the music reproduction, since the rumble will always appear in the music. This is due to the mechanical nature of turn tables, which transmit all mechanical vibration to the stylus.

Check this for more detail:
https://www.theanalogdept.com/measures.htm

Maybe most benefical for turn tables is the ability of the Reactio to actively reduce vibration at frequencies as low as 1Hz, even at high amplitudes. This benefits the suppression of footfall sound and low frequency vibration generated by the turn table itself.
 
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It is nice to see constructive discussion in this area. Active isolation is an relatively new idea in audiophiles. Everyone has different impression. Like any other forms of support, it needs to be apply correctly.

First of all, not all active isolators are built and function the same. There are different mode of operations. Its function is to reduce vibration, just attenuate not eliminate. Some vibration still transmits through. Seismion Reactio, Herzan TS-150 and Accurion i4 coded the reduction to be 30-35dB. More advanced models like Herzan AVS + LFS claims the reduction to be 55dB. The extra reduction was shown to be audible in my turntable.

Extra footers, such as CMS Centerstage and Stillpoints below and above the isolator will affect the sound. The changes are the same as without the isolator. They are not mutually exclusive but can have combined effect.

All turntables have some form of suspension to counteract external vibration. They are broadly divided into soft and rigid suspensions. Linn and Vertere are typical soft turntable. Transrotor Zet and AS2000 are rigid turntable. In theory, active isolation best suits soft turntable. Since soft suspension is already a form of passive isolation, active isolation will complement with passive one to have a better result. Rigid turntable can post a problem in active isolator as mentioned in previous posts. But I have seen several examples of rigid turntables on active isolation with good results. So it all depends of how it is used.

This is a happy user of Transrotor on Seismion.
seismion tt.jpg
 
@ICUToo was referring to the Seismion products. It would be great if you (@Cellcbern) stopped trying to hijack this thread with a completely different product! It's quite lame.
A passive product has nothing to do with this section of the forum, which is for Active isolation!
Sorry - wasn't aware that you had been appointed forum police or that it was forbidden to mention a passive isolation device in a thread that started out focusing on active ones.

I responded to poster ICUToo with the Wellfloat link because his post said ".....so I am interested in a racking/isolating solution". Far as I know none of the makers of active isolation devices make racks, nor is there any reason the active isolation platforms and passive Wellfloat products (which include racks) can't be used together. Since ICUToo responded with a "Like" I assume he appreciated receiving the link.

I also asked if a particular individual who had access to both had compared the Seismion with the new Wellfloat Babel since both are presumably state of the art based on the feedback.

Obviously I don't presume that an active isolation platform designed for microscopes is necessarily superior to a passive one designed for audio with components that can be supported by both, in the absence of comparative listening.

Don't think this constitutes "hijacking the thread" and don't see how what I post is your concern.
 
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Thanks for that post, Seismion. Very interesting.
“Cheap” is clearly a relative term! I am in Australia- do you distribute here at all?
Is anyone game to post prices for these devices?
I have Antipodes Oladra, MSB Reference DAC and Audionet Humboldt on home-made supports on a wooden floor, so I am interested in a racking / isolating solution :)
Hello ICUToo,
generally, we ship our isolators worldwide. Currently we offer our Reactio isolators in sizes 500x400 mm and 600x500 mm. Our prices are 4.800 Euro and 5.600 Euro for these models (plus VAT and shipping). They are 100% made in germany.
Currently there are still a few 500x400 ones in final assembly which could be shipped within 1-2 weeks. The next batch (and the 600x500 ones) will be ready in about 5-6 weeks.

Greetings, Marcus
 
Regarding the question of application of Seismion Reactio under the turntable, I can share my personal experience.

I have just received my Reaction this week and tried it under both the tube preamp (Audio Research R6Se) and the non-suspended turntable (Transrotor Apollon). I found it provide more sonic improvement under the turntable!

It works extremely well in combine with my original anti-vibration platform, composed of multi-layered audiophile platforms and footers of different materials, for turntable. After implantation of Reaction in my system, more details are easily discernible and sound image is more solid and 3D, just like the real instrument playing in the audio room. The loudspeaker sound more effortlessly and provide wider range of dynamic and fast transition. In addition, the depth of sound stage and image focus are also improved. No negative sonic effect is found!

In addition, I agree with Marcus that auto-leveling and information display will not provide additional sonic advantage for use under turntables but only cost more for customers.

reDSCF2446.JPG
 
This is Sebastian from Seismion, I am going to add some aspects on active isolation of turn tables, since these devices benefit most from active isolation. First of all the unwanted self-noise or rumble will be reduced by an active isolator, since the active isolator is like a damper for vibration energy. This means the active isolator tries to stabilize its top plate by feedback control of the accelerometers mounted under the top plate. Any incoming vibration, from bottom or top is reduced! However, this ability is limited by its mechanics and electronics design. Some active isolators switch off when vibration (-rumble- in the turn table case) induced into the top plate gets to big.

The Reactio will counterforce even bigger rumble and depending on the kind of rumble reduce it respectively. This benefits the music reproduction, since the rumble will always appear in the music. This is due to the mechanical nature of turn tables, which transmit all mechanical vibration to the stylus.

Check this for more detail:
https://www.theanalogdept.com/measures.htm

Maybe most benefical for turn tables is the ability of the Reactio to actively reduce vibration at frequencies as low as 1Hz, even at high amplitudes. This benefits the suppression of footfall sound and low frequency vibration generated by the turn table itself.
Thanks Sebastian!

I don't think Reactio is contraindicated for audio components with moving parts such as turntables or cd players/transports.

Certainly the counter-vibration capability of Reactio has an upper limit, but I guess audiophiles who are willing to buy a Reactio must be using more than mid-price/-grade components which are without excessive self-vibration.

I am quite confident that Reactio can handle the situation.
 
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Regarding the question of application of Seismion Reactio under the turntable, I can share my personal experience.

I have just received my Reaction this week and tried it under both the tube preamp (Audio Research R6Se) and the non-suspended turntable (Transrotor Apollon). I found it provide more sonic improvement under the turntable!

It works extremely well in combine with my original anti-vibration platform, composed of multi-layered audiophile platforms and footers of different materials, for turntable. After implantation of Reaction in my system, more details are easily discernible and sound image is more solid and 3D, just like the real instrument playing in the audio room. The loudspeaker sound more effortlessly and provide wider range of dynamic and fast transition. In addition, the depth of sound stage and image focus are also improved. No negative sonic effect is found!

In addition, I agree with Marcus that auto-leveling and information display will not provide additional sonic advantage for use under turntables but only cost more for customers.

View attachment 102643
Hi MTS,
Congrats!

The more upstream the audio components are, the higher the sonic benefit of anti-vibration will be.

I'm using MYSTJ audio racks too. They are very good-buys.
:)

I see that there is a CMS platform too?
Have you compared the Seismion vs it?
Thanks!
 
Hi MTS,
Congrats!

The more upstream the audio components are, the higher the sonic benefit of anti-vibration will be.

I'm using MYSTJ audio racks too. They are very good-buys.
:)

I see that there is a CMS platform too?
Have you compared the Seismion vs it?
Thanks!
There is no CMS platform in my system so I am afraid I cannot compare with Reactio.
The gray platforms are TAOC platforms, made of MDF and cast iron. The price is a bargain for audiophile but it functions very well while you couple with the appropriate footers beneath.

The footers and platforms used under the Reactio follow as
MYSTJ ceramic footer, BDR carbon platform, BDR cone, TAOC platform, Isoacoustics GAIA, TAOC platform, BDR plate and MYSTJ ceramic footer.

And all the system is placed on the MYSTJ RXEX rack.
 
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There is no CMS platform in my system so I am afraid I cannot compare with Reactio.
The gray platforms are TAOC platforms, made of MDF and cast iron. The price is a bargain for audiophile but it functions very well while you couple with the appropriate footers beneath.

The footers and platforms used under the Reactio follow as
MYSTJ ceramic footer, BDR carbon platform, BDR cone, TAOC platform, Isoacoustics GAIA, TAOC platform, BDR plate and MYSTJ ceramic footer.

And all the system is placed on the MYSTJ RXEX rack.
Curious: Why do you have three different platform/footer combinations under the Reactio? What do they provide that the Reactio by itself doesn't?
 
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Curious: Why do you have three different platform/footer combinations under the Reactio? What do they provide that the Reactio by itself doesn't?
As I have mentioned in the previous post, the platforms and footers under the Reactio is the passive anti-vibration system built for my turntable and this combination did a great job to decrease vibration and improve the sonic performance of analogue playback.
teDSCF2417.JPG

Currently, these passive platforms and footers play as a synergic role to enhance the performance of the active isolator.
 
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Obviously I don't presume that an active isolation platform designed for microscopes is necessarily superior to a passive one designed for audio with components that can be supported by both, in the absence of comparative listening.
Our Isolators aren't specifically designed for microscopes. They are made to enable the most challenging requirements for vibration reduction, and I believe they do their job very well. Please compare the attached measurement of the standard Reactio, taken in our basement, with the worlds best Precision Laboratories. You should notice that these Labs are standing on passive isolators, I think it is very interesting how they achieve sub 10nm/s vibration amplitude by passive isolation. The Reactio is able to achieve sub 10nm/s (VC-M) above 10Hz, when placed in a quite place.


Seismion_Reactio.jpg
By Sebastian
 
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I visited a good friend yesterday.
He had both Accurion and Seismion, for his two turntables.

IMG_20230108_222204.jpg

We didn't have time to compare the effect of both anti-vibration platforms on the two turntables but he had done that already.
He is a very experienced audiophile and is very meticulous.
The above combination suits his audio system and taste very well.

I don't think Seimions/Accurion/Herzan are not suitable for "floating/soft" types of turntables.
The Thorens with Seismion is heavenly!
:D

My personal advice :
1. Interested audiophiles may buy one platform first and try it on the various components of the system and find the best application sites before planning to buy more.
2. Price-wise Seismion is invincible!
;)
 
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Due to some valid criticism of the Reactio not showing the saturation of the sensors, I am thinking to add an indicator of saturation into the already mounted LED.

How about letting the LED flash in different sequences in order to indicate saturated/overdriven sensors. This would require an additional microcontroller inside and would increase the Reactios price respectively.

The main advantage would be, that the user would be able to see if his turntable or other equipment generates excessive amount of rumble. Besides, a green LED would indicated full isolation performance, whereas, a flashing one would indicated limited isolation performance.

Sebastian
 
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Due to some valid criticism of the Reactio not showing the saturation of the sensors, I am thinking to add an indicator of saturation into the already mounted LED.

How about letting the LED flash in different sequences in order to indicate saturated/overdriven sensors. This would require an additional microcontroller inside and would increase the Reactios price respectively.

The main advantage would be, that the user would be able to see if his turntable or other equipment generates excessive amount of rumble. Besides, a green LED would indicated full isolation performance, whereas, a flashing one would indicated limited isolation performance.

Sebastian
I am happy, that my Accurion i4L does not blink at all, after running through the start set up, I like to listen to music and not to control flashlight LED frequencies in my listening room. But maybe others do prefer to have such information available.

For me during set up, this might be a point of interest. Have you thought about a total off switch for the LED?
 
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Due to some valid criticism of the Reactio not showing the saturation of the sensors, I am thinking to add an indicator of saturation into the already mounted LED.

How about letting the LED flash in different sequences in order to indicate saturated/overdriven sensors. This would require an additional microcontroller inside and would increase the Reactios price respectively.

The main advantage would be, that the user would be able to see if his turntable or other equipment generates excessive amount of rumble. Besides, a green LED would indicated full isolation performance, whereas, a flashing one would indicated limited isolation performance.

Sebastian
Hi Sebeatian,
I think that it's a nice-to-have but not essential.
I worry that it will increase the building cost/price of a Seismion and Shakti is right : a led and its circuit create noise.

This is very real and is audible, particularly in a good system.
A few frds of mine disconnect led on their audio components such as Cybershaft 10M clock ...etc.

Therefore adding a circuit to detect and indicate overload then a led on/off switch then ...
Too tedious IMHO.
 
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Both Herzan TS-150 and Accurion i4 have overload or saturation indication. Their activation LED will blink if they are overloaded by external vibration.

I don’t think it is necessary for Reactio. The advantage is its simplicity. The most important thing is the sound which is good with Reactio. The criticism comes because there is a market for a higher model, Reactio Pro.

You should pour everything you know into Reactio Pro and leave Reactio as it is. That’s my humble suggestion. Well done Sebeatian.
 
Ok, I see..
So I‘m going to make a special Audio-Pro version. The current Reactio is fully analog, there is only linear circuitry inside. The LED is driven by analog comparators.

Do you suggest the Audio-Pro also to be fully analog without any microcontrollers, displays and so on? This would mean all functions would habe to be displayed by several LEDs driven by analog comparators. However, the leveling needs a microcontroller and several digital components like motor drivers etc. I could fully turn off and internally disconnect all digital circuits after initialization and setup of the system, for example by an extra switch.

Sebastian
 
Ok, I see..
So I‘m going to make a special Audio-Pro version. The current Reactio is fully analog, there is only linear circuitry inside. The LED is driven by analog comparators.

Do you suggest the Audio-Pro also to be fully analog without any microcontrollers, displays and so on? This would mean all functions would habe to be displayed by several LEDs driven by analog comparators. However, the leveling needs a microcontroller and several digital components like motor drivers etc. I could fully turn off and internally disconnect all digital circuits after initialization and setup of the system, for example by an extra switch.

Sebastian

Sebastian, I’m curious to know your thoughts about which version would ultimately sound better under the devices for which they are designed.

If you are soliciting opinions about what products to make, I would suggest the fancy one with the lights be called the audiophile version and the existing version be left alone as people seem quite satisfied with it
 

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