Sme 3012 R

I know this old arm is good but I don’t know why David,Rockitman,Tang,Ron,Mike
Use or will use having top tonearm like Sat,EliteAxiom,Black Beauty,Durand

Why 3012 is so special?
I never had and I don’t understand
Only to know for my curiosity
Regards
Gian

 

This is the joy of having more than one table, tonearm and cartridge. There is no need for the BEST, because there is no best on every album one plays. Even your mood one night may change which transducer you prefer.

Sometimes, this seems lost on some with one one table, tonearm and cartridge. Perhaps for them they might want to buy another similar quality table and have some fun listening and enjoying the sonic and musical differences.

My thought as well Shane.

And about the coloration Davey refered to the 3012R, I haven’t yet found it add or subtract much to the carts that were put on it. In two words, very neutral. I am in the camp that arm and tt shouldn’t leave signature to the sound or even compliment the cart. I want a cart to be left alone as much as possible and to be the only variable that gives characters or flavors to music as the cart builder intended to. I think the SME does pretty much just that. So as SAT and Axiom. But as David said the 3012R has special ability that “it’s tonal depth and range or the deep nuanced and defined bass if your system is able to reproduce it,” I will have to keep listening in greater length to see if he is right again and because these attributes could easily come also from the cart. Vinyl front is really fun ain’t it.

Tang

 

This post is why you are well liked and respected, Tang. You enjoy audio, life, and music. Boy, do I sound like Bob?

 

Davey

It’s too bad that you feel so jaded to the arm. I have owned one for the past 3 years since I heard it at David’s house. In fact he has not one but many of these on each and every table he owns all with different cartridges. I heard a great variety at his house. I’m no vinyl expert like you guys but to my ears and in my system I could care less if this arm is 30 years old and there are countless SOTA arms in the market as the sound is spectacular. Further I virtually never use my other arm or dart because the sound I get leaves me with little desires to try anything else. I guess that makes me one of those guys that is happy with one arm and cartridge. It’s just that this one is very special plus mine was new in the box when I got it

 

Quick question, since you seem to believe that the engineering companies see a synergy in there ( perhaps their..no?) products, why do you not use their current V12 arm vs. one that they themselves have stated is long surpassed in their line???
My bet is you blindly acquired the SME 3012R without even listening to any of the current SME products on your table.

Davey,

what's your fight in this game ? Have you ever tried the 3012R ? I don't think you have. You seem to think that since it was discontinued years ago it must be inferior to the subsequent tonearm releases by SME ? Keep living that fantasy. I will enjoy trying out my vintage Decca FFSS (cantilever-less) carts tonight on Decca ED1 SXL lp's... something the most expensive tonearms on the planet can't do. Cheers !

 

I will enjoy trying out my vintage Decca FFSS (cantilever-less) carts tonight on Decca ED1 SXL lp's... something the most expensive tonearms on the planet can't do. Cheers !

Show off!

(I am so jealous )

The ED1 reallly a notch above the rest?

Tang

 

Show off!

(I am so jealous )

The ED1 reallly a notch above the rest?

Tang

The adapter came in today. Tonight I mount and align to the 3012R arm. ED1 and ED2 Decca (Wide Band Grooved) were all made on a complete tube repro and cutting system. While ED1 is preferred, most say ED2 sound virtually the same (all tube like ED1). There are a few Decca titles that fetch over $2000/LP for ED1. The same title in ED2 can be half as much or even a quarter the price depending on the title. I rarely will spend more than $1,000 on a record. For those few title well above that, I seek ED2 for both Decca and Columbia SAX golden age classical records.

 

Too many of them in the used market. I was a SME dealer when they killed it, I think my cost was less than $1k, price nearly doubled with M2.

AS-2000 is based on a very rare expensive turntable, upgraded and reengineered as a very niche ultimate product literally 100’s of thousands of 30xx arms were manufactured and sold. Not the right comparison in terms of cost an market but definitely in terms is sound quality.

I understand. I have a sailboat that is still in production since 1994. They have built 500 or so since then. That is very unusual for a boat that was the most expensive boat of its type when introduced. There are quite a few on the used market at any time and they still sell for about the same price as when new. This is unheard of in the sailboat world. Buying this model new is so expensive that used boats retain value. The company has a hard time selling new boats for $280k when a used boat costs less than half and is almost just as good. Their main competition is the same boat on the used market. Alerion Express 28. I bought a boat from year 2000 Hull #156 in 2014 for the same amount that it sold for in 2000 new. I paid about 1/3 of new price. The original owner lost no money. Extremely unusual in the boat world. I guess this is now the case with 3012 except there are no new versions sold by SME.

So I now understand why SME can’t sell a new 3012r fuor $10k. But, they could sell it for less with warranty if it is so much better than V12. It is interesting that SME did not design their tables to fit the old arms. Why???

If I build an arm pod there will be criticism that conditions don’t match my suspended V12 or set up is different or whatever. I may also suffer now from extreme bias so will have to have my Boston Audio Group listen too. I am really curious to know and I do have three cartridges so that is a lot of possible combinations. Perhaps some day if I can find a NOS 3012r.




david[/QUOTE]

 

This post is why you are well liked and respected, Tang. You enjoy audio, life, and music. Boy, do I sound like Bob?

That, and his excellent sense of humor !

 

Show off!

(I am so jealous )

The ED1 reallly a notch above the rest?

Tang

Unfortunately for the most part,Tang, yes. Speak to General and he’ll tell you which you can get away with ED2 etc.

Cheers

 

Unfortunately for the most part,Tang, yes. Speak to General and he’ll tell you which you can get away with ED2 etc.

Cheers

And his test presses are notches above ed1, unfortunately

 

I really want the SME 3012R to go back into production and not be expensive. I'm not even saying I'd purchase one... I just don't like that the internet now knows it's the only tonearm to get. Because of that used prices are skyrocketing. While it might still be a bargain, it looks like a bend-you-over price to anyone coming into the hobby. I don't believe entry level needs to be trash... But I would say there's more bad stuff than good stuff.

The same problem exists with some used TTs. But there will never be an equivalent production to the past models because unlike a tonearm, the good old ones are not easy to make.

 

today I visited an audiophile with a nice set up.
3x Garrard 301 and 3x SME 3012r plus Ortofon SPU.
Now he is replacing alls SME 3012r against Fidelity Research FR64 copper.

So you can imagine, we had a long chat, as I like both arms a lot and would prefer the SPU on the SME 3012r over the FR64s on my turntables.

But in his set up, to my surprise , the FR 64s was outperforming the SME 3012r.

At the end, there is now other way, that trying different arms in a dedicated set up and than to decide, whats best.

After having tried various combination of turntables with FR64s and since a while with SME 3012r, it seems, that the SME 3012r is more easy to combine. May it is, because the base has the 4 plastic/rubber feets, which eliminates the effect / resonances of the individual turntable.

The FR64s "must" sit on a heavy base, otherwise the arm looses the energy.

I heard SME 3012r also very satisfying on a thin wood base.

 

As far as I see, the fundamental difference between the "R" and other SME series is the tonearm tube material - stainless steel 0.25 mm versus 0.5mm aluminum. The adjustable lateral balance system seems secondary, all we need is a good source of quality replacement tubes to start converting the hundreds of cheap selling existing SME tonearms. Although I found a supplier of 12" effective length stainless steel wands he sells the wrong thickness ...

 

I rarely will spend more than $1,000 on a record.

Are these expensive records limited to classical or is that the same for original issue jazz?

 

Are these expensive records limited to classical or is that the same for original issue jazz?

Classical, jazz, rock... Like good quality Beatles will be really expensive.

Essentially all the labels you buy, whether Decca or blue note, etc, there are original pressings, reissues by the label itself, and reissues by other companies like classic records, analog productions, etc. For the originals you need to learn to read labels and matrices to know whether it is first, second, edition or repress and more importantly source the originals in good condition should you want to collect them

 

I took Christian’s suggestion and I went back and deleted the posts which I found subjectively to be unbecoming of the gentlemen involved.

This is a wonderful thread, DDK is teaching us a lot, and I agree with Christian that I do not wanted the thread adulterated with impolite posts.

Let’s move on . . .

 

Are these expensive records limited to classical or is that the same for original issue jazz?

These expensive records cover many areas - look at eBay completed auctions for the crazy prices - over usd 5000 for some test pressings!

Fortunately I have a reasonable size LP collection that is enough to fuel my vinyl fatal attraction - probably I will not buy more LPs, except for those occasional moments we can't resist. But in order to listen to new music I will buy mainly digital.

 

I took Christian’s suggestion and I went back and deleted the posts which I found subjectively to be unbecoming of the gentlemen involved.

This is a wonderful thread, DDK is teaching us a lot, and I agree with Christian that I do not wanted the thread adulterated with impolite posts.

Let’s move on . . .

Perhaps if you are deleting posts you should post in green ... IMHO moderation in a forum should be formal.

 

Are these expensive records limited to classical or is that the same for original issue jazz?

For me yes. Original Jazz can go for that and more and are usually not in as good condition as the classical lp's from the same time period. In general there was more play and handling on the Jazz records.

 

Interesting thread so far. Here’s to great vintage arms, conical styli and ancient cabling... not unlike good old wines, but thankfully technology has subjectively improved, much like fine wine making techniques.