Sme 3012 R

I know this old arm is good but I don’t know why David,Rockitman,Tang,Ron,Mike
Use or will use having top tonearm like Sat,EliteAxiom,Black Beauty,Durand

Why 3012 is so special?
I never had and I don’t understand
Only to know for my curiosity
Regards
Gian

 

Well IF you were to ask SME, I'm pretty sure that they would tell you that their current arms are a significant advance over their older models...and IMO with very good reason. Unfortunately, there are people who believe that cannot be true...and therefore it is all marketing 'BS' on SME's behalf

Business is built on sales. Until SME begins to manufacture and sell the SME 3012R again, of course they are going to say their current arms are superior. It's basic logic.

 

Just found that one of my SME 3012R's is a "SME3012 R - with 2203S", as written in the box. The 2203S is the steel knife edge, that can be bought separately from SME - although replacing it is not easy, just because one of the screws must attach to the internal ground lug.

Although we can easily get common SME steel knife edges at eBay.uk, they are longer than the SME "R" series - in order to use them with this version of the arm they must be machined to remove the tilted part of one extremity.

 

I did ask them just that and that is what they told me. Well one engineer did. He is an engineer not a marketing guy with BS. In the end it is all subjective so it does not matter. Tango is happy because he saves money and likes the sound. I understand micros point now. I used to know a group of guys who all had Teres tables and Durand arms and ZYX cartridges. They were very happy.

The SME 3012R was launched in 1981. So if the engineer you talked to wasn't at least 65 years old, chances are he didn't design the 3012R. I've yet to meet an engineer, and I've met a lot of them, that would admit an earlier design was better than the current effort of a company.

 

The SME 3012R was launched in 1981. So if the engineer you talked to wasn't at least 65 years old, chances are he didn't design the 3012R. I've yet to meet an engineer, and I've met a lot of them, that would admit an earlier design was better than the current effort of a company.

The design of 3012 goes back to the 50’s and was already the greatest tonearm back then. Later the engineers, sales people or some other ignorant executive decided that the arm is too good so let’s mess it up with a series 2! Fortunately someone figured out the mistake that was made and fixed it with 3012-r which is basically series 1 with minor ergonomic upgrades.

At this point who cares what anyone has to say, people who use and love it are capable of making their own decisions and know what they have. The rest is noise, filter it out!

david

 

Business is built on sales. Until SME begins to manufacture and sell the SME 3012R again, of course they are going to say their current arms are superior. It's basic logic.

Unless, of course the new arms are better. That logic can also hold...no.?
Look, you like the old war horse, good for you, but perhaps accept that others may not feel the same way. Personally, as I stated before, I have gone on from this arm...and I have never looked back. If someone was to offer me a SME V12 or a 3012 R, I would opt for the V12 in a second.
One thing that has been left out of this discussion so far, is the synergy that the arm has to have with the table. Would I mount either of these arms on a Linn, heck no. But on a SME 30/2 or 30/12...the arm of choice for me would be the V12...no question. BTW, have you ever tried a V12 on your table, if not, then perhaps that should be something to contemplate...instead of blindly defending the old war horse.

 

Unless, of course the new arms are better. That logic can also hold...no.?
Look you like the old war horse, good for you, but perhaps accept that others may not feel the same way. Personally, as I stated before, I have gone on from this arm...and I have never looked back. If someone was to offer me a SME V12 or a 3012 R, I would opt for the V12 in a second.
One thing that has been left out of this discussion so far, is the synergy that the arm has to have with the table. Would I mount either of these arms on a Linn, heck no. But on a SME 30/2 or 30/12...the arm of choice for me would be the V12...no question. BTW, have you ever tried a V12 on your table, if not, then perhaps that should be something to contemplate...instead of blindly defending the old war horse.

I've done the modern SME dance, lifeless. I enjoyed my Ikeda arm much more than the currennt SME's on my Transrotor turntable. And the Ikeda was bested by the SME 3012R.

 

I've done the modern SME dance, lifeless. I enjoyed my Ikeda arm much more than the current SME's on my Transrotor turntable. And the Ikeda was bested by the SME 3012R.

You have done the modern SME dance, how’s that? You owned an SME 30/20 with an SME V12? Has it ever occurred to you that your Transrotor is not synergistic with the newer arms, and you prefer the coloration of the table with the 3012R....but that this doesn’t mean that the newer arms are far more resolving than your current set up...on the right platform.

Your turn...

 

The current SME arms were designed before the tables. If the current SME arms were only made for SME tables they wouldn't be sold separately. So....you can do the SME dance without the tables. AND SME makes several OEM arms for Transrotor. Obviously both SME AND Transrotor believes there's synergy. Seriously, you're grasping at straws.

 

Trans rotor is made by the German distributor of SME

 

At this point who cares what anyone has to say, people who use and love it have can are capable of making their own decisions and know what they have. The rest is noise, filter it out!

david

+3012 !

 

+3012 !

You are funny, Lone Wolf.

Tang

 

In my opinion, they both sound great. The Axiom too. I greatly enjoy all of them. Which one I prefer? Of course, the SME. It costed me a fraction of SAT and Axiom. Who would not prefer to pay less if they can get this level of sound. A no-brainer. Preferences are individualistic. Is there really the best arm? Last Saturday, a nice gentleman, another Thai owner of AS2000, came to my room to listen to the SME and SAT on my AS. He brought along very very expensive first press and test pressing of various titles. When he listened to Belafonte he said the AtlasSL on SME sounded better than when played on GFS/SAT. And when we played that Flamingo famous Direct-to-Disc album, he said the GFS/SAT sounded better than the AtlasSL/SME. He seemed pretty impressed with what he was hearing from both. What does that tell you and me about which arm is better? Nothing. Except it is good to see that this way cheaper SME can impress the guy as much as another setup with super expensive arm. I am only writing this only to let you guys know from my experience that exceptional sound can come from much cheaper arm than Axiom and SAT. I can never be absolute to say which is the best. Ddk is absolute. I am not. Anyway that gentleman now decides to put 3012R on his table along with Axiom and Thales as I posted the picture in another thread. One last thing, when you actually get this exceptional sound from your system, you would no longer question why about the gear you are using. Look at Mr.Lavigne. He doesn’t care how those kitten litter boxes make his system sound so exceptional. The removable headshell, the integrated tonearm wire, etc just become forgettable.

Kind regards,
Tang

Tang

This is the joy of having more than one table, tonearm and cartridge. There is no need for the BEST, because there is no best on every album one plays. Even your mood one night may change which transducer you prefer.

Sometimes, this seems lost on some with one one table, tonearm and cartridge. Perhaps for them they might want to buy another similar quality table and have some fun listening and enjoying the sonic and musical differences.

 

No one willing to compare the R vs Mk2?

 

No one willing to compare the R vs Mk2?

MK2-12” isn’t anything special but not bad either. Were it not for it’s price it would make a great starter arm. The M2-12r is basically the same, on the dark side and closed in compared to the 3012-r which is expansive and dimensional, nothing I’ve heard to date even gets close to the 3012-r in that respect or it’s tonal depth and range or the deep nuanced and defined bass if your system is able to reproduce it.
david

 

Thanks. This is pretty much what i wanted to hear. Basically it is mostly the steel vs alu tube, right?

 

Thanks. This is pretty much what i wanted to hear. Basically it is mostly the steel vs alu tube, right?

No the M2-12r even uses the same armtube, collet and headshell, it’s M2’s bearing that seems to be culprit. They followed the ignorant messing with perfection same as when inteoduced the Serires 2 & 3 to replace Series 1. I never understood why they killed their best tonearm, they could introduce new ones without killing the 3012-r, unless of course they knew that the none of the new models can compete sonically with it.
david

 

Business is built on sales. Until SME begins to manufacture and sell the SME 3012R again, of course they are going to say their current arms are superior. It's basic logic.

Logic might also suggest that they copy the 3012r, their ultimate achievement and sell it for $10,000 just like David did with his AS2000.

 

Logic might also suggest that they copy the 3012r, their ultimate achievement and sell it for $10,000 just like David did with his AS2000.

Too many of them in the used market. I was a SME dealer when they killed it, I think my cost was less than $1k, price nearly doubled with M2.

AS-2000 is based on a very rare expensive turntable, upgraded and reengineered as a very niche ultimate product literally 100’s of thousands of 30xx arms were manufactured and sold. Not the right comparison in terms of cost an market but definitely in terms is sound quality.

david

 

Now all tonearm price start from 10.000 usd
Also new Saec 407,model below my 506,cost 9.500 usd

 

Logic might also suggest that they copy the 3012r, their ultimate achievement and sell it for $10,000 just like David did with his AS2000.

Whom's logic, Peter? Do we have any evidence of such high enthusiasm for the SME 3012-R tonearm outside this small circle?

If it was not for customs - it is not possible to send and return goods without taxes and a lot of paperwork - I would send you a SME 3012 to try!

IMHO we can not compare the 3012-R with David AS2000 achievement. The amount of money and the type of customer related to them implies very different rules.