Thanks. Cardas sounds interesting. I haven't tried their new cables.
Smooth musical cabling suggestion
- Thread starter Thieliste
- Start date
I experienced a similar situation. Current system is a Gryphon Diablo 300 to Spendor D9 speakers was a little fatiguing on top. The system before the Diablo was VAC Renaissance 5 pre/Ayer VX5/20 amp/Ayer QX5/20 DAC. All replaced by the Diablo 300 w/DAC (many Audience AU24SX interconnects and PCs departed) I replaced the previous Luminous Synchestra speaker cable with Cardas Clear Reflection. This final piece was exactly what the system needed to mitigate the slight fatigue leading to long engaging listening sessions. Now I realize I need a new chair but that is for a different post…
I see you have kept your VIP XLR interconnect mixed with the Cardas Clear Reflection SC, is this a better mix than going full Cardas clear Reflection ?
Thanks.
I only have the need for one interconnect in my system between my Dynamic Sound Associates Phono 2 and the Diablo. I compared the Gryphon VIP to my previous Audience AU24SX balanced cables and decided to keep the VIP. Using the Diablo’s DAC module prevents the need for any interconnects on the digital side. I specifically wanted to address the slight tweeter presentation fatigue from my speakers. Years ago I had a short trial with the Cardas Golden Reference SC on my Thiel 2.4. It was interesting but not what I was looking for at that time. The Cardas Clear Reflection SC are much more open and extended but works extremely well in my current system. It did take about 75 hours for the Cardas to settle during which I had some thoughts about looking elsewhere. If you audition a pair of the Clear Reflections give them adequate time once in place even if they are not new before making a full judgement.
Thanks, i have not yet found a dealer that would like to lend me Reflection SC and IC, i only need one IC between my Aqua Formula DAC and my Diablo 300.
I think in my case the system being highly resolving, dynamic and fast i would like to have more meat, better bass and smoother trebel.
Therefore a loom of Feflection IC and SC would probably give me what i am looking for.
I can still try mixing my VIP XLR with the Reflection SC and see what that does...
I know the problem. A long time ago I had Infinity 9.2i and T+A electronics. It was a mismatch in the high frequency range. The solution was Magnan cables, which I still use in current systems. I am a friend of the Signature as well as the Reference speaker cables.
Not sure why this didn't occur to me sooner...
I'll suggest FMS Zero ICs and speaker cable. These were made by Alex Gibson who did early designs for Audioquest then set out on his own. You should be able to find them on the used market at prices low enough to experiment. I had Thiel's some time ago, and the Zeros did a fine job dealing with their top end. Perhaps not the most detail oriented cable, but gorgeous tonality.
I'll suggest FMS Zero ICs and speaker cable. These were made by Alex Gibson who did early designs for Audioquest then set out on his own. You should be able to find them on the used market at prices low enough to experiment. I had Thiel's some time ago, and the Zeros did a fine job dealing with their top end. Perhaps not the most detail oriented cable, but gorgeous tonality.
Have you considered the possibility that your Gryphon cables sounding "too clear" as if there is such a thing with treble tending toward fatiguing is really your system crying for help elsewhere?
Too fatiguing, sometimes also known as unbalanced or lean, can be an idication that your bass region is weak. When the bass is really dialed in, it can be quite amazing how much more warmth and tonality and balance occurs. Often times making an otherwise fatiguing or overly lean presentation can suddenly sound quite musical, rich, and balanced. Of course there are potentially other areas (distortions) causing the cry for help. But the point being that when a cable or component sounds "too detailed" we know there is no such thing as "too detailed" but I get your point. But it can really help to consider all possible aspects of what your system may be trying to tell you before discarding anything that may appear too clear or too detailed.
If you simply assume it's actually too clear, then removing them for something that's only clear enough will likely ensure your system cannot improve beyond the "clear enough" cables you choose.
Not to mention that any cable you choose that is "less clear" will obviously be more colored.
Why 100% copper? These days I'm using all silver cabling and in addition I've had all my silver cables cryo-treated via the superior full immersion method for even greater clarity. I'm not really looking these days but I've yet to encounter a 100% copper cable sound as musical. Cryo'ed or not.
Well since i moved in my new house the system actually sounds much better and engaging.
My new living room is bigger and my Thiels can breath much more, the speakers have much more space from the side wall and that does seem to make a big difference.
I will demo a couple of cable brands but not sure it will make a big difference.
I've been thinking about this and I think the problem is not the cables but within the signal.
The final sound of the loudspeakers depends in 90% on the amplifier signal, and in 10% on the package of information we try to preserve with cables.
The cables cannot add anything from themselves, as being a passive element, they have no means of getting any kind of extra information.
At most they can keep some details for themselves, filter out some nuances, accent others, but we are always within the amount of electric impulses provided by the amplifier.
Keeping things short it is about the idea, that a certain cable should keep as little to itself as possible, “disappearing” from the sound path, providing the highest possible conformity of what comes in on one end with what exits on the other end.
So essentially, you are trying to find cables that will chop off or round off the highs.
My experience with Digital and within my system was that working on power and mechanical vibrations was beneficial and totally removed any harshness and fatigue.
If I can give you some recommendations pls try the following (since you are only streaming).
-Maybe start with a LP player or CD player and see if the problem disappears? Like this you can maybe validate the fact that it comes from the streaming chain.
-Start at the beginning ie your orange box. Try to replace the LPSU by a better one, try solid copper core DC cables between the LPSU and the box, and place both on isoacoustics graphite. Then pls turn off the wifi of the orange box and use a separate wifi router. It's really harsh with the wifi on.
If it doesn't help, then work down the chain. You'd be very surprised what a small thing such as a DC cable can make as a difference.
-If you have the possibility, try to consider dedicated power lines vs power conditioners. I haven't tried the Audioquest but I tried others and for me I thought that they were introducing a bit too much energy making the sound a bot too forward to my taste. The sound via the dedicated lines is more balanced and natural. Try this cable:
www.audiophonics.fr
-Try isoacoustics orea pods below the power supplies and your streamer. It also helped reducing fatiguing highs and it will open up the top and the soundstage too.
-Maybe try cable lifters too. Maybe these cables don't like being on the floor. An interesting read:
positive-feedback.com
My experience is that power quality throughout the chain and vibration control was the most effective treatment for harshness.
Pls consider giving it a try before you replace your nice cables.
The final sound of the loudspeakers depends in 90% on the amplifier signal, and in 10% on the package of information we try to preserve with cables.
The cables cannot add anything from themselves, as being a passive element, they have no means of getting any kind of extra information.
At most they can keep some details for themselves, filter out some nuances, accent others, but we are always within the amount of electric impulses provided by the amplifier.
Keeping things short it is about the idea, that a certain cable should keep as little to itself as possible, “disappearing” from the sound path, providing the highest possible conformity of what comes in on one end with what exits on the other end.
So essentially, you are trying to find cables that will chop off or round off the highs.
My experience with Digital and within my system was that working on power and mechanical vibrations was beneficial and totally removed any harshness and fatigue.
If I can give you some recommendations pls try the following (since you are only streaming).
-Maybe start with a LP player or CD player and see if the problem disappears? Like this you can maybe validate the fact that it comes from the streaming chain.
-Start at the beginning ie your orange box. Try to replace the LPSU by a better one, try solid copper core DC cables between the LPSU and the box, and place both on isoacoustics graphite. Then pls turn off the wifi of the orange box and use a separate wifi router. It's really harsh with the wifi on.
If it doesn't help, then work down the chain. You'd be very surprised what a small thing such as a DC cable can make as a difference.
-If you have the possibility, try to consider dedicated power lines vs power conditioners. I haven't tried the Audioquest but I tried others and for me I thought that they were introducing a bit too much energy making the sound a bot too forward to my taste. The sound via the dedicated lines is more balanced and natural. Try this cable:
OYAIDE EE / F-S2.6 V2 Câble secteur Cuivre 102 SSC FEP blindé 3x5.3mm² Ø14.5mm - Audiophonics
oyaide-ee-f-s26-v2-cable-secteur-cuivre-102-ssc-fep-blinde-3x33mm-o-14mm
www.audiophonics.fr
-Try isoacoustics orea pods below the power supplies and your streamer. It also helped reducing fatiguing highs and it will open up the top and the soundstage too.
-Maybe try cable lifters too. Maybe these cables don't like being on the floor. An interesting read:
Bunking Cable Lifters - Positive Feedback
Bunking Cable Lifters: Roger Skoff Writes About the Other Side of the Discussion
positive-feedback.com
My experience is that power quality throughout the chain and vibration control was the most effective treatment for harshness.
Pls consider giving it a try before you replace your nice cables.
I agree with what Alchemist has said above. I would add that my recent addition of the Lessloss CMARC Entropic Firewall 640X filter on my power conditioner, and CMARC Entropic AC cable on my sacd player (replacing an Echole Obsession Signature) resulted in a significant reduction in high frequency brightness/harshness (minimal to begin with) and an increase in articulation and overall musicality that I would not have thought possible.
I will check these out.
Do you have any experience with the Lessloss speaker firewall ?
Haven't tried the version for speakers.
FYI:
Firewall 640X & 640X C-Marc Entropic
Entropic Process RCA
Just ordered 2 of the Lessloss CMARC Firewall 640x, i'll let you know what i does to trebel brigthness.
Who knows it might save me from buy new expensive SC.
With two I would suggest putting one on your power conditioner/distributor, and the other on your DAC.Just ordered 2 of the Lessloss CMARC Firewall 640x, i'll let you know what i does to trebel brigthness.
Who knows it might save me from buy new expensive SC.
I was thinking of putting one behind the Conditionner and one behing my Diablo 300.
My DAC is plugged into the conditionner just like my streamer, Switch and Router as opposed to my Diablo 300 which is plugged directly into the wall outlet.
Do you think the amp will not benefit from it ?
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