Solar Cell electricity effect on Audio???

[Kingrex]

Steve. Strong statement. I still see a small inverter creating noise x 10 to 20 units all sending the total compilation of noise to your electrical service. There is no filter removing it. It doesn't just go away. I do believe anecdotal evidence so if its 0 affect at your house, great.

Dayton. There is a large difference between an inverter in say a PS Audio, Stromtank, Pure Power unit and a solar system. The first 3 are purpose built for audio. Solar is built for reliability and low cost.

I would call the manufacturer of these systems if I were considering it on my house and ask for white papers on noise propagation. They have to have it.

 

[Kingrex]

And micro has a good point. When you build out your battery bank, you will now need a single large inverter to turn the stored power from 36 volts to 120 volts. Or 240. And if that power is to charge a car, it will need to be an industrial unit.

 

[brad225]

I have almost no technical clue of how solar power systems are put together. If what I am saying doesn't make scene it is just my interpretation of what my audio friend that is an EE.says, not necessarily reality. He rebuilds every piece of equipment that comes into his home.

His home is powered by solar with battery storage. One of the things he recently been working on is the DC current in the power that still exists after the AC leaves the converter. After extensive testing on his power he has built a few different iterations of a DC Blocker device. His current and latest version has make an amazing difference in the sound of his system. The basic change is a much quieter clearer sound.

My short explanation of his technical description is that AC transformers do not preform well with DC current leakage put in them.

He came over on tested the current in by listening room and found that there was a small amount of DC current leakage in the power in our home. Whether it came from the the power company or something inside the home, we haven't gone that far YET.

He built a DC blocker that I plugged into my Tripp-Lite power backup a single power cord feeds my Shunyata Hydra that handles all of the front end of my system. I installed it with the thought that I had just gambled about $700 based on everything I have seen him improve in his system. To my surprise I found the same change I heard in his system. Quieter and Cleaner sound, it was a total surprise. He is now suggesting building 2 more for my power amps. Chances are good I will give it a try.

I will tell him about this thread and he may be able to correct what I wrote and maybe offer some suggestions.

It may not be immediate as he had a total knee replacement 5 days ago and physical therapy and pain killers are the 2 main things in his world right know.

 

[microstrip]

Steve. Strong statement. I still see a small inverter creating noise x 10 to 20 units all sending the total compilation of noise to your electrical service. There is no filter removing it. It doesn't just go away. I do believe anecdotal evidence so if its 0 affect at your house, great.

Dayton. There is a large difference between an inverter in say a PS Audio, Stromtank, Pure Power unit and a solar system. The first 3 are purpose built for audio. Solar is built for reliability and low cost.

I would call the manufacturer of these systems if I were considering it on my house and ask for white papers on noise propagation. They have to have it.

Micor inverters and inverters are usually grid-tied - they add noise to the mains, keeping some of the mains noise, although probably correcting mains waveform distortion. Unless we have all the details about the solar system being used, any anecdotal evidence is hard to analyze or reproduce. Micro-inverters will probably have the advantage (or disadvantage... ) of generating a lot of uncorrelated noise.

 

[Steve williams]

any anecdotal evidence is hard to analyze or reproduce

it’s called listening

 

[Kingrex]

His home is powered by solar with battery storage. One of the things he recently been working on is the DC current in the power that still exists after the AC leaves the converter. After extensive testing on his power he has built a few different iterations of a DC Blocker device. His current and latest version has make an amazing difference in the sound of his system. The basic change is a much quieter

He came over on tested the current in by listening room and found that there was a small amount of DC current leakage in the power in our home. Whether it came from the the power company or something inside the home, we haven't gone that far YET.

He built a DC blocker that I plugged into my Tripp-Lite power backup a single power cord feeds my Shunyata Hydra that handles all of the front end of my system. I installed it with the thought that I had just gambled about $700 based on everything I have seen him improve in his system. To my surprise I found the same change I heard in his system. Quieter and Cleaner sound

Interesting. I built a DC blocker myself. Basically a set of caps on a diode. It was stunning how quiet my system became. TV was unreal good. But it also deadened my system so I got rid of it. I think the Isotek Syncro is similar.

 

[Kingrex]

I tried calling Outback. They make inverters here in WA. I could not find a texhnical person there who knew anything about how they filter the noise from the inverter. I am going to contact Solar Energy International of whom I'm a member and see if anyone there knows whats really going on.

 

[brad225]

Interesting. I built a DC blocker myself. Basically a set of caps on a diode. It was stunning how quiet my system became. TV was unreal good. But it also deadened my system so I got rid of it. I think the Isotek Syncro is similar.

The first DC blockers that my friend built did that same thing we noticed. His newest design has eliminated that from what we can hear.

 

[Steve williams]

I still believe that you guys are making mountains out of molehills. There is just no noise in my system which uses 30 micro inverters

 

[Kingrex]

The first DC blockers that my friend built did that same thing we noticed. His newest design has eliminated that from what we can hear.

If he put $700 into a diode, caps and accessory, he built a much better unit than I did. Critically selected components may yield a fairly inaudible tonal shift while blocking DC. It is still forcing your power through a filter. It comes down to, is the the symptom worse than the cure.

 

[Kingrex]

I still believe that you guys are making mountains out of molehills. There is just no noise in my system which uses 30 micro inverters

For me its more a better understanding the total affect of solar. We had this same issue at Square D with our frequency drives. They make noise too that needs to be filtered. We had one at an industrial facility that was messing with computers in another building. We had to go in and isolate the specific harmonic and make a tailored filter to eliminate it.

I personally want to know how far the filtering technology has come. Some people may well suffer from a neighbor with an older solar system that does not filter as well as it use to and pollutes all those neighboring around them.

Also, peopel talk offgrid. Battery banks. What are you really doing to your power. Remember, every power source has a sonic signature. If we are looking for the very best in power, we need more than anecdotal evedence. I'm not saying its unwanted. I take it into consideration. But if I am to recomend solutions to my customers I need real test data. Along with satisfied users. You have given me a good variable to investigate. My bigger concern is the single large inverter to change your DC battery bank into AC. What sonic signature will that have. I highly doubt its the same as a turbon driven alternator which is the basis to all our, coal, nuclear, gas, hydro and wind generation systems.

 

[Steve williams]

. But if I am to recomend solutions to my customers I need real test data

you seem to have an industry affiliation. Our Terms of Service require all those in the industry to divulge their affiliation in their signature.
kindly do such

 

[brad225]

If he put $700 into a diode, caps and accessory, he built a much better unit than I did. Critically selected components may yield a fairly inaudible tonal shift while blocking DC. It is still forcing your power through a filter. It comes down to, is the the symptom worse than the cure.

I spoke with him briefly today and he said that the main change was using 80 volt caps rather than the 35 volt caps he started with. He spoke about micro spikes that would be larger than the 35 volt caps could deal with.

I agree with you about the symptoms and the cure. At this time it is only a good thing I am hearing or not hearing, if you will. That doesn't mean it will stay that way, but i will be the first to admit if it doesn't.

Though I don't always understand what you are writing, I do find the information you share interesting.

 

[Kingrex]

you seem to have an industry affiliation. Our Terms of Service require all those in the industry to divulge their affiliation in their signature.
kindly do such

I'm an electrician looking to move into wiring audio system. I have done a few for friends. More a learning process. I am assessing how I could launch a real dedicated busness and what I would offer.

A lot of people think a Tesla Powerwall would ba a solution to clean power. Maybe, maybe not. It's something I need to know. As of now I do not have a business outside wiring houses and restaurants. If and when any audio business rises forth, I will happily share.

 

[Kingrex]

Yes, its a lot of money for design to build a rack. And no DIY person should ever mess with solar. And I would not want it out it in my yard where a dog or kid could touch it. Solar is incredibly letal. The voltage is easily 600v to 800v. And its pushing serious amps at that level. Micro inverters do have the advantage of lowering the voltage to 120v per panel. But, 120 volt kills more electricians than higher voltages. You clamp on and can't release. And 120volt seems to screw with your heart and make it beat erratic where blood does not flow. 277volt usually blows you off and burns you good. But you live. 600v to 800v just kills you. Electricity travels on your blood vessels and central nervous system. High voltage cooks them very fast. Keep your solar on your roof and have a pro do the work. I traveled around the country taking solar courses to be certified. It's very, very dangerous.

 

[brad225]

Interesting. I built a DC blocker myself. Basically a set of caps on a diode. It was stunning how quiet my system became. TV was unreal good. But it also deadened my system so I got rid of it. I think the Isotek Syncro is similar.

Just for FYI. This is a pic of the 6th and latest version of the DC Blocker he built for me. Today he changed a small paper & oil cap for the large silver Teflon cap in the upper right corner of the box.

I have not listened to it in my system yet but in his it further opened up the lower mid range. Time will tell if it changes anything in mine this time.

The second pic is of his original DC Blocker that didn't provide any improvement.

 

[Kingrex]

Just for FYI. This is a pic of the 6th and latest version of the DC Blocker he built for me. Today he changed a small paper & oil cap for the large silver Teflon cap in the upper right corner of the box.

I have not listened to it in my system yet but in his it further opened up the lower mid range. Time will tell if it changes anything in mine this time.

The second pic is of his original DC Blocker that didn't provide any improvement.

Decent parts. I'm glad it works well. Is that a 10 x 10 box?

 

[Kingrex]

I found a company that says their inverter has a pure sine wave. Its for industrial applications. A charger powers the power cell and the inverter turns the AC to DC.
I have also heard the Stromtank. It is a hybrid lithium battery and inverter making 120 volt AC. Its actually stunning in performance. Better than the wall on front end gear. I heard the smallest model so while its more quiet and clean on the 400 watt monoblocks, it looses a little dynamics. But the smallest unit is designes specifically for front end. Larger ones handle powerfull amps.

What I'm saying is, a good inverter with a battery can be better than the wall. A Powercell and inverter with installation is going to cost as much as an entry level Stromtank. I don't know if it would be the sonic equal of a Stromtank. But the Powercell would run your refer, freezer and a couple lights for a couple days in a power outage.
The small Stromtank would only power a few lights and charge phones and laptops for a couple days. The big stromtank would probably power refers and freezers too for a couple days. A 36 watt group 90 lithium battery is giving about 5 hours of power to my friends electric trolling motor on a 24 foot North River Seahawk. I am pretty impressed at the storage potential of lithium.

But, the news definitely hides the danger of lithium. I believe a lot more homes burn down from lithium battery failure than you know. I have a friend who lost his whol house when a Dewalt battery blew up in the charger. Burned his house to the ground. Never in the news. Lots of cars go up in flames when charging. A Tesla powercell could go up too. I always put my chargers on concrete now. Never a wooden bench if Im not in the room.

Stromtank in not normal Lithium. Its a different makeup that is suppose to be more safe.

 

[brad225]

I found a company that says their inverter has a pure sine wave. Its for industrial applications. A charger powers the power cell and the inverter turns the AC to DC.
I have also heard the Stromtank. It is a hybrid lithium battery and inverter making 120 volt AC. Its actually stunning in performance. Better than the wall on front end gear. I heard the smallest model so while its more quiet and clean on the 400 watt monoblocks, it looses a little dynamics. But the smallest unit is designes specifically for front end. Larger ones handle powerfull amps.

What I'm saying is, a good inverter with a battery can be better than the wall. A Powercell and inverter with installation is going to cost as much as an entry level Stromtank. I don't know if it would be the sonic equal of a Stromtank. But the Powercell would run your refer, freezer and a couple lights for a couple days in a power outage.
The small Stromtank would only power a few lights and charge phones and laptops for a couple days. The big stromtank would probably power refers and freezers too for a couple days. A 36 watt group 90 lithium battery is giving about 5 hours of power to my friends electric trolling motor on a 24 foot North River Seahawk. I am pretty impressed at the storage potential of lithium.

But, the news definitely hides the danger of lithium. I believe a lot more homes burn down from lithium battery failure than you know. I have a friend who lost his whol house when a Dewalt battery blew up in the charger. Burned his house to the ground. Never in the news. Lots of cars go up in flames when charging. A Tesla powercell could go up too. I always put my chargers on concrete now. Never a wooden bench if Im not in the room.

Stromtank in not normal Lithium. Its a different makeup that is suppose to be more safe.

The Stromtank are a pleasure to look at. All I could think of was a Momentum Amp.

They are seriously expensive though but what quality electronics aren't?

 

[Kingrex]

The Stromtank are a pleasure to look at. All I could think of was a Momentum Amp.

They are seriously expensive though but what quality electronics aren't?

And I heard Momentum amps through the stromtank. But a good inverter is $4k or so. A charger is $1000. A powercell is $7k. Then you have to pay $2k to wire kt all up. Also another $700 or so in parts and wiring to make the powercell into a manuel transfer to the main panel to run the refer and freezer in rhe power outage.

If you want to power it with solar your in another $30k.