Soon to come, hORNS Universum mk4!

christoph

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Dec 11, 2015
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i think it remain the same as yours...
do you have the impedance correction botton?

View attachment 67110

Thanks again :D
Yes, your UNI 4 is still bi-amp-able but the level matching with yours is done AFTER the x-over and individually for the mids- and treble-horns :cool:
With my UNI 3 the level matching is done in front of the x-over and for the mids- and treble horns together.
Is the black button on the right of the input terminal the impedance compensation? The UNI 3 does not have this feature.

Your version gives you more flexibility to also tweak the mids and treble individually in relation to the bass section.
But I have to say that I regard the fixed mids-tweeter levels (relatively to each-other) as quite spot on, at least in my system/room :D

I wonder how the impedance compensation imposes the audible result.
Haver you already listened for a sonic difference when engaging/dis-engaging the impedance button?

I wonder if the new features are upgrade-able from the UNI 3. It looks like (maybe apart from the impedance compensation) it should be rather easily feasible :oops:
 

byrdparis

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Congrats on the new speakers. They look great. As a multiway horn user, and as someone who got his horns manufactured by the same guys, I know the quality of their workmanship. I have gone a different way and just bought individual horns from them though.

I would suggest (in time) to check the attenuators. I have used several and found out some are clearly better than others. On my own system I use fostex r100t attenuators. The ones here seems to be generic L-Pad attenuators and I am sure they are doing what they are supposed to do and the designer has made trials ande decided on those.

Still, commercial manufacturers generally go for the ones like this one here; https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/elec...t-52h-for-constant-impedance-mono-p-5299.html as they sound close and are 1/10th of the cost of ones like the fostex I use.

Once everything is settled in, and you are enjoying your system, looking for ways to better the sound, you can make trials with better quality attenuators and enjoy a nice upgrade. I would suggest either fostex r100t or attenuators from intactaudio (half of emia) when you do so.

Have a great time enjoying your beautiful setup.

Hello,
thank you.

to tell you the truth, i understand what you wrote and everything but i wouldn't know how to replace them even if i wanted :)
i'm the meantime they sound very very good and i'm enjoying them a lot.
as for now, i am more curious about single ended amps for it... maybe 211 based or 845...
 

byrdparis

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Nov 24, 2015
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Israel
Thanks again :D
Yes, your UNI 4 is still bi-amp-able but the level matching with yours is done AFTER the x-over and individually for the mids- and treble-horns :cool:
With my UNI 3 the level matching is done in front of the x-over and for the mids- and treble horns together.
Is the black button on the right of the input terminal the impedance compensation? The UNI 3 does not have this feature.

Your version gives you more flexibility to also tweak the mids and treble individually in relation to the bass section.
But I have to say that I regard the fixed mids-tweeter levels (relatively to each-other) as quite spot on, at least in my system/room :D

I wonder how the impedance compensation imposes the audible result.
Haver you already listened for a sonic difference when engaging/dis-engaging the impedance button?

I wonder if the new features are upgrade-able from the UNI 3. It looks like (maybe apart from the impedance compensation) it should be rather easily feasible :oops:

as Lukasz answer me about it,
the mk3 has the IMP correction always ON as a fix,
we (on the mk4) can deactivate it... if we wish.
as for now, i was listening almost a week with it deactivate, today is the first day i turn it ON,
the differences are minor... with my very powerful tube amp at least.
i can guess that with a lot smaller or delicates amplification i will hear a lot more difference which the correction will help tube amps preform better.
any way il keep it on for now, as Lukasz said he prefer it with all tube amps... maybe il try to experience the changes again in a week or so again.


the change is:
"Switch linearised impedance
From 500Hz to 20000Hz impedance in speakers are flat"
(in Lukasz words)
 

bonzo75

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Audiophile Bill

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Leif - are you using the copper or silver or tin plated copper CAST caps?
 

Audiophile Bill

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I like the Dueland CAST caps a lot
 

advanced101

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as for now, i am more curious about single ended amps for it... maybe 211 based or 845...
Keep us updated on your amp trials, I am interested in amps in the 20wpc range too
 
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bonzo75

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kodomo

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good for you
already straight in after installation, you´ll get better attack and decay, and the purity of tone will be even better after a while
system seems faster and easier to hear separate instruments
everybody who´s tried them have same result
the Duelund std resistors are good too but not like this
also tried the polish Path with separate gnd wire, but they´re simply not in the same league

another trick is the old JBL invention from the 60s: precharged capacitors in passive crossover
a variety was implemented by Avantgarde in later models as their idea
to replace cap you buy 2 of double value and in the joint between the serial connected caps you connect a 1mohm resistor and a 9v battery(+ to 1M and - to neg) in series to minus, resistor closest to caps
big improvement!
battery will last your lifetime
a cheap jantzen suddenly sounds like Mundorf SiO
guess if you´d be willing to spend the $$ you´d get even better result with the SiO
 
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christoph

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as Lukasz answer me about it,
the mk3 has the IMP correction always ON as a fix,
we (on the mk4) can deactivate it... if we wish.
as for now, i was listening almost a week with it deactivate, today is the first day i turn it ON,
the differences are minor... with my very powerful tube amp at least.
i can guess that with a lot smaller or delicates amplification i will hear a lot more difference which the correction will help tube amps preform better.
any way il keep it on for now, as Lukasz said he prefer it with all tube amps... maybe il try to experience the changes again in a week or so again.


the change is:
"Switch linearised impedance
From 500Hz to 20000Hz impedance in speakers are flat"
(in Lukasz words)

Do you have some new listening impressions for us?
How many hours are you in on the break-in process?
 

byrdparis

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Nov 24, 2015
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Keep us updated on your amp trials, I am interested in amps in the 20wpc range too
Hello.
Thanks for your interest,
For now, I had a few amps and preamps rolling V.S my own set up.
Some of them not quite in the league I had in mind, but to audition low watt tube amps, not to mentioned SET/PSET or their kind in Israel, in not many word -not easy-. To say the least.
I had my set up amps and preamp for a long time now, it is a custom, high-grade top of the line parts (Tamura, Tango, Mundorf, Tantlum, Wbt. Yamamoto etc.) designed and constructed by the most brilliant person I know in our community. He design and build the most outstanding tube amps I know… and a small group of friends did get him to build for them some of the unique sounding amps around. The problem is, it is expensive! Very expensive for a "no name" (almost zero Commercial ability worldwide, only the PPL who know who he is will put their money on them) the other problem is the time consuming for the process.
So, I thought maybe before I had in to his house and start a new build, maybe check some other commercial amps around and see what work better and what not.. or less so.
When I was waiting for my speakers to arrive, I was afraid maybe my PP kt120 – 120w will be more than the Universe mk4 can handle, but I guess my worries gone when I press Play for the first time they played. My amps play wonderfully clear and with authority and sound density. The Universum are very delicate sounding but can convey any recording or pressing with the outmost clarity that I heard.
However, mu curiosity got over me and I cannot resist rolling some amps to find out if I missing something magical. I have always read about the most engaging dynamics ang magical sound between SET and horns and now, I have the chance to listen to that magic (allegedly).
I had two SETs amps for now to audition in my system since the Universum arrive.
But some more equipment arrived and enter my entire system.
The first one I could here is the Yamamoto 300B SET with their own preamp. I had some misconception it might will be to Low watt for the Uni, but I had a great time to listen to them in my system. The power amp was controlling every aspect of the sound. It was a bit less dynamics from my own set-up but not something I couldn’t live with.
The highs were with more trail and sweetness and a bit more holographic. The bass even though it were a bit looser, it got deeper and with more texture than anything else.
However, there were one problem that we heard in that session- the mid bass around 300-400hz was a bit massy and pressing on our ears. i discovered later Relying on another audition I had with the new Luxman kt88 with the same problem that its coming from negative feedback on. The Unis might be sensitive to this In conjunction with my room and acoustics)
After the Yamamoto experience, I was asked by a friend of mine which is an audio dealer locally if I want to hear some great 845 amps that he have in demo. So,
The second SET I had the "pleasure" to bring to session is actually a PSET – the Absolare 845 signature. The word Pleasure is in quotes because we couldn’t hear it after all, the balance connection that I need to use (my own pre amp is balance only) with them were not working properly. We figured it might not materialized in his demo units…(a very strange thing in my book, but it’s the dealer point to make with the manufacture, not mine).
We could bring up the Absolare pre amp, but I was not in the mood for it, and thought it make this whole deal not relevant for me anymore. So I send it and him back home without any clue how they play.
In between I had the opportunity to listen with shindo lab pre amp instead of mine, the Luxman kt88 class A amp instead of mine (connected direct from my dac as he have a gain control) the Manley stingray I had from a previous system I used to have.. and some others.
So for now, no combination were good and stable enough to "beat" my own setup but more to come. I spoke to the person who build my setup and asked him if he got any other already build amps I can audition, and he say yes, so I will get in the near future some of his work to try and listen if the magic is there in single ended… with my new horns.
 

bonzo75

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Nice fun time you are having and I wish I could have been there for the amp roll.

I don't see the yamamoto 300b working without biamping. The Absolare that I heard on the Diesis had triode and pentode mode, and you can try both to see which drives Uni better.

"Universum are very delicate sounding but can convey any recording or pressing with the outmost clarity that I heard."

- This is very true and listening to good classical recordings on universum is a pleasure. It is also so transparent to recordings
 
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byrdparis

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Nice fun time you are having and I wish I could have been there for the amp roll.

I don't see the yamamoto 300b working without biamping. The Absolare that I heard on the Diesis had triode and pentode mode, and you can try both to see which drives Uni better.

"Universum are very delicate sounding but can convey any recording or pressing with the outmost clarity that I heard."

- This is very true and listening to good classical recordings on universum is a pleasure. It is also so transparent to recordings

Thanks, its sure is, I loved to welcome you when "we" can meet.
I didn’t see it either, but it does J surprisingly not to shabby at all.
The Absolare might have those, but I didn’t get to that part as I mentioned, they just came un ready for balance connection.
 

byrdparis

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Nov 24, 2015
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Do you have some new listening impressions for us?
How many hours are you in on the break-in process?

Hey Christoph,

I think I have around 150 H of listening and around 300 total of working time (playing through them almost constantly) after around 100 point, I started to twist some knobs and get familiar with his ability to change the gain on the highs and mids.

I think I achieved some balance according to my listening position. Now they playing very clear, smooth and palpable, very vivid with a delicate character. The dynamics are great and the bass is low and with a wrap like feeling,. This is not a a sub punchy hit you in the gut kind of bass, but a relatively natural low body musical low frequency. ( as ked mentioned a few times before, great for classical music, jazz and acoustical music. not electronic or metal oriented, although I tried to listen to those kind of music materials and its sound very good in my book, and relatively better from what I had before.

What I were most surprised about is how much it play seamless, the whole unit play as one big driver and not 3. This is the only Horn I listen to and know that can disappear in a room.

The effortless is just amazing. I love it have no boundaries or end point. it can goes on and on with a very dynamics parts and keep playing his own way. Everything is so clear and detailed without put itself up front.

I was trying to looks for cons v.s my previous "regular" speakers and I could not.
 
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bonzo75

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If you are finding it detailed, dynamic, effortless, well integrated, coherent, you have set it up well so quickly. And yes they disappear in the room like electrostats.
 

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