This is what I'm talking about. The racket from your other components is masking the noise from your preamp. It doesn't mean it isn't there, it's just lower in level than your other racket making devices.
Yes, and no...when I need to stand next to the tweeter (with my ear turned to the tweeter), its not the preamp. The fan on the Gryphon does not go on all the time...so initially the fan is not on, when I first turn it on. Personally, I think its dumb luck...put most normal tubes in and I can hear them from about 3 feet away...but out of 6 tubes, I sent back 4 and eventually got a pair dead silent...fingers crossed they stay that way. The dealer was very very good about it and managed to find these for me.
also, does the fact that the GAT is a hybrid SS/Tube make any difference? I am no techie.
Super quiet is a relevant term....we are talking of very minor noise here. However, and this is the biggie, some noise vs. no noise. My all tube preamp is quiet to a point, BUT IF you put your ears to the speakers, you can definitely hear the tube noise ( even though it is very low in output). I would suspect that IF you did the same thing with your speakers and the ARC turned up to your typical listening point ( gain) and with no music playing , that you would hear what I am talking about. The amount of intrusion into one's music is the question here. IMO, the fact that there is ANY residual background noise at all has to be somewhat detrimental, the question is to how much. Probably a question that we are unable to answer IF we are to also enjoy the benefits of tube preamps in the phono stage without a SUT.
Davey-There is no such thing as no noise or zero noise. It's just a question of degree. The best units are very quiet and non-intrusive. There are many layers to your noise floor when listening to your music and as the music fades away, you should hear the noise layers dropping one from another until all you are left with is the noise floor of your system between songs.
to compare phonostage noise of SS and some tube varieties..My Pass XP25 s/n is -85dB, my Allnic H5000 DHT s/n is -80dB. That is petty darn quiet for a full tube phonostage, including all tube power supply.
Davey-There is no such thing as no noise or zero noise. It's just a question of degree. The best units are very quiet and non-intrusive. There are many layers to your noise floor when listening to your music and as the music fades away, you should hear the noise layers dropping one from another until all you are left with is the noise floor of your system between songs.
Mark, that is absolutely correct. Which is why I shake my head when I hear people telling me they have no noise from their gear. Particularly tube gear..which I think has a built in propensity for more background noise than ss. ( generally).
Davey-There is no such thing as no noise or zero noise. It's just a question of degree. The best units are very quiet and non-intrusive. There are many layers to your noise floor when listening to your music and as the music fades away, you should hear the noise layers dropping one from another until all you are left with is the noise floor of your system between songs.
Agreed!
I guess my point of sharing was to say: "Damn Quiet"...considering the overly sensitive speakers. Maybe with some 88db sens. speakers the ARC would be "Really F'n Damn Quiet"...but then, I'm sure there would be someone to debate that as well.
Agreed!
I guess my point of sharing was to say: "Damn Quiet"...considering the overly sensitive speakers. Maybe with some 88db sens. speakers the ARC would be "Really F'n Damn Quiet"...but then, I'm sure there would be someone to debate that as well.
Quote from Paul Bolin's review on the REF 3:
"Ssssh!
I had a suspicion that I was in for a special experience when I had a profound reaction to the Ref.3 before it had played even one note of music. The first time I turned it on and unmuted its CD input, I ran the volume control up about halfway and heard nothing—utter silence. Were I a cartoon character (quit snickering), thought balloons full of question marks and exclamation points would have appeared over my head. I cranked the thing wide open. Again—total, textureless silence at my listening seat. Only when I got within a foot or so of the tweeter of one of my Wilson Audio MAXX 2 loudspeakers did I hear a very faint, strikingly fine-grained hiss. I can't wait to see what John Atkinson's measurements reveal, but subjectively, the ARC Ref.3 was the quietest tube preamp I've heard, and by a large measure. The nature of that silence was also intriguing. Like the Halcro dm10, the Ref.3 presented a live-sounding silence, not some dead, airless, deep-space void. This odd little tableau was but a precursor of what was to come".
I don't know how you can quantify inaudible, residual noise (in my case, I can't hear any tube hiss on my CJ ET5 when I put my ear within one inch of my MBL tweeter and midrange pods with the volume turned up to a very high level), "damn quiet", and "really f'n damn quiet".
I will let you and others discuss this utterly insignificant and, IMHO, meaningless difference relative to its impact on listening to music.
I hope your hearing isn't damaged, your MBLs aren't damaged, and the residual noise in your room is extremely low. However, I would reserve my personal judgement on how quiet your preamp is when turned up to an "aggressive volume level" unless I was there to hear it for myself.
No disrespect meant or intended. We all hear things differently and something you may consider to be dead-drop quiet might not sound that way to me is all I'm saying. What preamp and amp combo are you using?
Tube preamps will have more noise than a SS preamp. Show me a system where the owner claims that he can turn up the volume all the way and you have to stick you ear right on the tweeter to hear anything and I will show you an owner with damaged hearing or damaged tweeters or a room with a high noise floor. And it doesn't matter if it's SS or tube. All gear has some amount of residual noise. It may be super-low in level which is where you want it obviously, but it's there to be heard.
No disrespect meant or intended. We all hear things differently and something you may consider to be dead-drop quiet might not sound that way to me is all I'm saying. What preamp and amp combo are you using?
To be clear..you are saying that with your ears at the speakers, and with no music playing, BUT with the volume turned up to a typical listening position; there is NO noise whatsoever...Drop dead quiet.
To be clear..you are saying that with your ears at the speakers, and with no music playing, BUT with the volume turned up to a typical listening position; there is NO noise whatsoever...Drop dead quiet.
When I commissioned it as a dare from Valve Audio,the first requirement in the brief was a tube pre quiet enough to use with >110db/W full range horn speakers. After 4 years of development the resulting product is so quiet that with volume knobs turned wide open I can stick my head right into any of the 4 horns and hear nothing at all.
But when it was delivered all blue prints,design sketches and spare circuit boards were sent with.I had graciously offered that they could take the commission and make it part of their line. The answer was a firm " No thank you. Never,ever again such a difficult build." Must have been the 3D wiring between the stacked circuit boards ( in the quest for low noise) that killed the enthusiasm.
To be clear..you are saying that with your ears at the speakers, and with no music playing, BUT with the volume turned up to a typical listening position; there is NO noise whatsoever...Drop dead quiet.
