State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

[musicfirst1]

Would be fun to compare the Gryphon Apex with the Robert Koda K160 monos. As an enormous fan of Gryphon and owner for nearly 12 consecutive years before Robert Koda (also pure Class A), I can imagine their Apex is truly fantastic.

You have picked the two amplifers in Munich that were in my top three systems at the show. (Actually, the Apex gear was featured at the HiFi Deluxe show offsite)

I am quite familiar with the Gryphon Sound having owned the Diablo 300 and frequently enjoying the occasional whisky with a client who owns the Mephisto Monoblocks.

And while I'm not sure what speakers or market segment the new Gryphon Apex series is designed to serve (I'm not completely sure, but I believe they are appoximately 1 tonne per monoblock with 1 million pure class A watts into 1 ohm ) but for sure Gryphon's signature 'Velvet Glove in an Iron Fist' brand aesthetic was present in spades.

 

[morricab]

@morricab: Okay, its a terrible amp and only has Balls, nothing else...

Never said that…just saying “balls” has nothing to do with sound quality.

 

[John T]

@morricab : I didn't and don't want to do a complete comprehensive review of the Gryphon Mephisto. Does this work? Balls, heart, legs, arms, neck, hands, feet, thighs, wrists, lungs, kidneys, spleen, liver, and scrotum. The audio world is as subjective as the art world. Abstract makes no sense to most, for some it does. As I am sure you know, Interpretation, subjectiveness, is a huge part of audio and the "sound" people like or don't like. What floats my boat may not float yours? And that's fine.

 

[morricab]

@morricab : I didn't and don't want to do a complete comprehensive review of the Gryphon Mephisto. Does this work? Balls, heart, legs, arms, neck, hands, feet, thighs, wrists, lungs, kidneys, spleen, liver, and scrotum. The audio world is as subjective as the art world. Abstract makes no sense to most, for some it does. As I am sure you know, Interpretation, subjectiveness, is a huge part of audio and the "sound" people like or don't like. What floats my boat may not float yours? And that's fine.

I don't accept your subjectivism as a position for audio reproduction.

 

[PeterA]

I don't accept your subjectivism as a position for audio reproduction.

I tend to agree with you Brad, but I think that it depends somewhat on one’s goals. Does one just want a sound he likes, or does he want a sound that seems like the real thing? They could be one and the same and then the two listeners would have to compare notes which is where it becomes interesting and subjective. A larger consensus opinion would swing it towards more objective. The challenge is to find the words which we can agree on to describe what we hear.

An interesting experiment is to try to set up a cartridge with a few listeners in the room. With each adjustment one can ask does this sound more or less real. When I have done this, there is generally a consensus and everyone agrees with each other. Individual subjective opinions tend toward the objective when there is broad agreement.

I am reminded of this when reading the various reports of David Karmeli‘s turntable and cartridge collection. The broad consensus is that people prefer the Neuman cartridge on the American Sound turntable over other combinations.

 

[wil]

@morricab : I didn't and don't want to do a complete comprehensive review of the Gryphon Mephisto. Does this work? Balls, heart, legs, arms, neck, hands, feet, thighs, wrists, lungs, kidneys, spleen, liver, and scrotum. The audio world is as subjective as the art world. Abstract makes no sense to most, for some it does. As I am sure you know, Interpretation, subjectiveness, is a huge part of audio and the "sound" people like or don't like. What floats my boat may not float yours? And that's fine.

All I can say is "balls" and "grip" used in the same sentence makes me slightly uncomfortable.

 

[John T]

@PeterA: "The challenge is to find the words which we can agree on to describe what we hear" I couldn't agree more, I have given up using all the catch phrase adjectives. They sound foolish and all jumbled into one box. I understand both yours and Brad's reluctance to accept subjective as being as Brad said: Audio Reproduction. What more can I say to defend my choice of amplification? By waxing poetic, that accomplishes nothing. This morphed from someone saying the Mephisto had a "Dark" presentation, to me explaining why I like this amp. BTW many other great amps out there...

 

[PeterA]

@PeterA: "The challenge is to find the words which we can agree on to describe what we hear" I couldn't agree more, I have given up using all the catch phrase adjectives. They sound foolish and all jumbled into one box. I understand both yours and Brad's reluctance to accept subjective as being as Brad said: Audio Reproduction. What more can I say to defend my choice of amplification? By waxing poetic, that accomplishes nothing. This morphed from someone saying the Mephisto had a "Dark" presentation, to me explaining why I like this amp. BTW many other great amps out there...

John, I think you stating that you find your amplifier to sound both neutral and transparent is fine. There’s nothing wrong with that. You can leave it at that and people will see that as a data point and opinion from a listener or owner of that amplifier. Sharing opinions and having a discussion is the value of an audio forum.

 

[sbnx]

What can we say about the Mephisto? It has complete control of the speaker. As such, it has fantastic bass. It has the class A sound which imparts a certain lushness/warmth to vocals. I certainly would not call it "sparkly". It certainly has a lot of resolution. Perhaps to some this bottoms up approach to the sound can sound dark. The degree to which these traits are manifest will definitely depend on which speaker the amp is paired with. Should you pick the Mephisto or Solution or CH or Robert Koda? That decision depends on many factors but I don't think anyone would argue that these all represent an all out assault on amplifier design. The choice will be what sounds best to you when it is partnered with your speakers in your room. (See Marty's thread on pairing the CH and Mephisto with the ALEXX V for a very extended discussion of this)

 

[caesar]

It is pretty darn good I have to say

I don't doubt that... Valin has avoided it also, but has hyped up clearaudio and acoustic signature recently. What other turntables do you recommend, out of curiosity?

 

[morricab]

I don't doubt that... Valin has avoided it also, but has hyped up clearaudio and acoustic signature recently. What other turntables do you recommend, out of curiosity?

I am more of a DD guy when it comes to TT, so I like classic Japanese decks like Exclusive P3 and P10, Yamaha GT-2000, Kenwood L-07 etc. For newer decks, the latest iteration of the Grand Prix Monaco is really good. I also like Kodo "the beat" TT. Brinkmann's are good, both DD and Belt drive (but with an innovative motor and power supply).

 

[morricab]

I tend to agree with you Brad, but I think that it depends somewhat on one’s goals. Does one just want a sound he likes, or does he want a sound that seems like the real thing? They could be one and the same and then the two listeners would have to compare notes which is where it becomes interesting and subjective. A larger consensus opinion would swing it towards more objective. The challenge is to find the words which we can agree on to describe what we hear.

An interesting experiment is to try to set up a cartridge with a few listeners in the room. With each adjustment one can ask does this sound more or less real. When I have done this, there is generally a consensus and everyone agrees with each other. Individual subjective opinions tend toward the objective when there is broad agreement.

I am reminded of this when reading the various reports of David Karmeli‘s turntable and cartridge collection. The broad consensus is that people prefer the Neuman cartridge on the American Sound turntable over other combinations.

That's a bit of hair splitting when you start talking about cart adjustments, etc. I think more relevant would be a top tube phonostage vs. a top SS phonostage. They won't sound at all alike and one will sound closer to the real thing than the other.

 

[morricab]

@PeterA: "The challenge is to find the words which we can agree on to describe what we hear" I couldn't agree more, I have given up using all the catch phrase adjectives. They sound foolish and all jumbled into one box. I understand both yours and Brad's reluctance to accept subjective as being as Brad said: Audio Reproduction. What more can I say to defend my choice of amplification? By waxing poetic, that accomplishes nothing. This morphed from someone saying the Mephisto had a "Dark" presentation, to me explaining why I like this amp. BTW many other great amps out there...

Actually, no one, including me, said specifically that Mephisto is "dark". It was more of a general statement that may or may not apply to Mephisto or other newer Gryphon amps. I would disagree with your last statement that there are many great amps out there....most are utter crap..IMO.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I don't accept your subjectivism as a position for audio reproduction.

Lol.
What else is he gonna do .
If subjectivism isnt allowed anymore , we re heading towards North Korea .
One amp model provided by the state thats it .
No more discussions .

 

[morricab]

Lol.
What else is he gonna do .
If subjectivism isnt allowed anymore , we re heading towards North Korea .
One amp model provided by the state thats it .
No more discussions .

Not all, there is a clear reference for sound reproduction…try using it

 

[andromedaaudio]

Not all, there is a clear reference for sound reproduction…try using it

Everybody has different arms different legs , a different face different hair different character etc.
How likely do you think it
is , that we all have the same ears/ the same perspection ?

 

[MarcelNL]

ears may differ in size, sensitivity etc. The processing/perception is quite similar across individuals.

 

[bonzo75]

This thread is like the Google AI now, it is sentient and has the mind of a 7 to 8 year old, often keeps repeating same issues instead of growing

Google engineer put on leave after saying AI chatbot has become sentient | Google | The Guardian

Blake Lemoine says system has perception of, and ability to express thoughts and feelings equivalent to a human child

amp.theguardian.com

 

[andromedaaudio]

Audio can be so simple .
Buy what you like /or make what u like.

 

[John T]

@MarcelNL: "The processing/perception is quite similar across individuals" Perception is totally different across the board with different individuals.