State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

[andromedaaudio]

I didnt say the M6 was sharp sounding , Soulution was the main drag imo , i did hear bass issues in that room though.

If i ever go demonstrate my speaker designs on a show , i ll get cursed probably lol .

Kharma / R KODA and Rockport Lyra /CH were using the same rooms and power situation at the MOC show and sounded excellent .

I heard 4 wilson set ups ; XVX , ALEXX V plus 2 WP DAW enough to draw certain conclusions from

 

[Al M.]

If i ever go demonstrate my speaker designs on a show , i ll get cursed probably lol .

Yeah, don't. The chances that you can achieve good sound at a show are not good. But hey, if you want to play Russian roulette...

 

[andromedaaudio]

Yeah, don't. The chances that you can achieve good sound at a show are not good. But hey, if you want to play Russian roulette...

That might all be well and true , but if i was looking to spend half a million on hifi gear , i would nt be reading much magazines either.
I d buy straight of what i heard in munich .
It would be WADAX digital / rockport Lyra or a Kharma exquisite series LS and The Gryphon Apex amplification.

 

[tima]

And then to think a great musical brand as CAT is standing on the sidelines.
Same goes for Lamm probably ( unfortunately i have not much expirience with LAMM)

Ps ceasar have you heard the latest wilsons , talk about sharp edgy .
Something wasnt right to my ears

My Alexia 2s do not sound sharp or edgy with Lamm M1.2s
If I recall correctly, @PeterA did not hear sharp or edgy on his Magicos with the Lamm M1.1s.
I cannot remember the models but Magico with Soulution did sound sharp and edgy.
Several times I've heard various Wilsons with D'agostino amps they did not sound sharp and edgy, but a bit too smooth and slightly generic.

Which just shows that judging speakers without amps and vice versa is a fools errand.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Which just shows that judging speakers without amps and vice versa is a fools errand.

Which proves the point then that everybody hears things differently

 

[morricab]

My Alexia 2s do not sound sharp or edgy with Lamm M1.2s
If I recall correctly, @PeterA did not hear sharp or edgy on his Magicos with the Lamm M1.1s.
I cannot remember the models but Magico with Soulution did sound sharp and edgy.
Several times I've heard various Wilsons with D'agostino amps they did not sound sharp and edgy, but a bit too smooth and slightly generic.

Which just shows that judging speakers without amps and vice versa is a fools errand.

Yes that is likely true that they don’t sound edgy with LAMM. I still think the electronics are the biggest barrier to realistic sound; however, the speakers can be a barrier to realistic dynamics especially.

IMO, Wilson are ok speakers that are overpriced for what they deliver but not bad. They are not very coherent and the mechanical alignment is a gimmick. You either design phase correct and then physically align or forget it. Wilsons do usually have above average sensitivity but often with difficult loads so not really optimal. The best in that regard was the original X1, which was SET friendly. It was, and still is my favorite Wilson just because it can be used with great sounding amps.

Magico similarly uses traditional engineering concepts taken to extremes but no consideration on time/phase correctness, sensitivity or dynamics (if you don’t count their unobtanium horn system) or ease of driving.

Alon seems to be a good businessman so he makes what sells in the market and wields a big marketing budget but at least I know he is aware of the difference between even his new monster M9 and te unbridled dynamics of his horn creation. My guess is selling that was a real challenge.

Who I respect more though is Kevin Scott from Living Voice who has an ultimate speaker to die for but has somehow managed to distill that essence into something very WAF…with the appropriate electronics. That is an achievement. I would take his Avatar OBX-RW4 at about $20k over ANY Wilson or Magico and drive it with a sweet SET (perfect for an ML2, for example).

 

[morricab]

Which proves the point then that everybody hears things differently

Put your CAT amps on there and it will sound a lot better…I think CAT probably makes one of if not the best PP tube amps.

 

[Al M.]

Put your CAT amps on there and it will sound a lot better…I think CAT probably makes one of if not the best PP tube amps.

CAT is excellent.

 

[caesar]

Yeah, don't. The chances that you can achieve good sound at a show are not good. But hey, if you want to play Russian roulette...

The fan boys will like their favorite brands no matter what. Read the show reports on forums. Read the "best of show" reports from the slobbering sycophant / "audio journalists"

 

[caesar]

My Alexia 2s do not sound sharp or edgy ...

You still have alexias after the mecca to Utah?!?!!?

 

[caesar]

So you re saying JV is responsible for what i had to endure in munich in the M6 solution without a soul room lol.
I agree with you on most things but i would nt say CH is bad .
Part of my munich visit was to find out the best SS.
The best was the gryphon and RKoda.
Pylium and CH second place but also good.

Dagostino sharp sterile.
Darts sharp at occasions but that might be due to the fact the stenheim tw got overloaded.

And then to think a great musical brand as CAT is standing on the sidelines.
Same goes for Lamm probably ( unfortunately i have not much expirience with LAMM)

Ps ceasar have you heard the latest wilsons , talk about sharp edgy .
Something wasnt right to my ears

I don't have much experience with Pilium or Robert Koda, but I am sure they are better than the popular crop of SS. Gryphon is excellent, but many find DARK.

CH is lean and clean. It's not bad if you already have a very musical system with a realistic, natural tone. Otherwise, in an all CH system with typical box speaker, it's torture. But audiophiles have a wild imagination and pretend it's real

 

[caesar]

I wonder what M. Fremer thinks of J. Valin's Walker turntable. Is he still using it? Magico and Wilson are well represented at TAS.

he would have reviewed it a long time ago if he liked it

 

[LL21]

So you re saying JV is responsible for what i had to endure in munich in the M6 solution without a soul room lol.
I agree with you on most things but i would nt say CH is bad .
Part of my munich visit was to find out the best SS.
The best was the gryphon and RKoda.
Pylium and CH second place but also good.

Dagostino lean sterile.
Darts sharp at occasions but that might be due to the fact the stenheim tw got overloaded.

And then to think a great musical brand as CAT is standing on the sidelines.
Same goes for Lamm probably ( unfortunately i have not much expirience with LAMM)

Ps ceasar have you heard the latest wilsons , talk about sharp edgy .
Something wasnt right to my ears

Would be fun to compare the Gryphon Apex with the Robert Koda K160 monos. As an enormous fan of Gryphon and owner for nearly 12 consecutive years before Robert Koda (also pure Class A), I can imagine their Apex is truly fantastic.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Would be fun to compare the Gryphon Apex with the Robert Koda K160 monos. As an enormous fan of Gryphon and owner for nearly 12 consecutive years before Robert Koda (also pure Class A), I can imagine their Apex is truly fantastic.

Indeed , i would offer myself gladly for that review job
I always thought enough power is enough .
But the Gryphon had such a natural / neutral grip on the music , it was really special .
Audio luxury , but in a natural good way not drawing attention to anything

But coming back home and listening to the CAT JL 5 , to be honest i cant say anything bad about it either despite the lower cost .

 

[MarcelNL]

Cost IMHO is meaningless, above a certain threshold the components used should be good enough to maximize output quality and things come down to design philosiphy and implementation.
One major factor is power requirement, low efficiency speakers will need high power amps, and low power amps will pretty much always sound better but put the onous of making that true on the speaker.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I wouldn t go so far .
I d have to hear them at least 2 weeks each in my own system to give a meaningfull answer .
I would nt be surprised though if the R Koda and the gryphon would exceed the CAT amp in listening pleasure/ quality

Plus i heard them on WADAX in munchen and wadax digital is special in its own way , definetively exceeding the digital i have at home

 

[morricab]

I don't have much experience with Pilium or Robert Koda, but I am sure they are better than the popular crop of SS. Gryphon is excellent, but many find DARK.

CH is lean and clean. It's not bad if you already have a very musical system with a realistic, natural tone. Otherwise, in an all CH system with typical box speaker, it's torture. But audiophiles have a wild imagination and pretend it's real

IMO if it’s dark it’s also wrong…

 

[morricab]

I wouldn t go so far .
I d have to hear them at least 2 weeks each in my own system to give a meaningfull answer .
I would nt be surprised though if the R Koda and the gryphon would exceed the CAT amp in listening pleasure/ quality

Plus i heard them on WADAX in munchen and wadax digital is special in its own way , definetively exceding the digital i have at home

I would really like to hear Robert Koda’s previous amp the K70, which was a hybrid.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I would really like to hear Robert Koda’s previous amp the K70, which was a hybrid.

I think amadeus can say more about that , he has / had them both plus the Gryphon Memphisto if im not mistaken

 

[morricab]

I think amadeus can say more about that , he has / had them both plus the Gryphon Memphisto if im not mistaken

I am not interested in Gryphon amps…they are heavily overrated IMO