State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

[microstrip]

Well, the people at the Audio Science Review Forum seem to believe that their cherished measurements strongly correlate with "objectively" better or worse .

I would be more careful with the word correlation. As far as I have read for them everything sounds similar, except poor measuring gear that is not worth listening ...

But then, the term "science" in their forum's title is a cheap parody of the real thing.

Many people there admit that there is no audio science behind their many graphs and thresholds - they are just guidelines for people who appreciate measurement. Anyway their hobby is very different from ours.

 

[microstrip]

John Atkinson Stereophile does a very good job at measuring and correlating that with what he actually hears.
Very informative imo.

Yes, he does a great job measuring, but unfortunately his work trying to correlate measurements with subjective sound quality is almost nom existent, inconsistent and many times clearly biased by his admiration for the product sound quality.

As audio consumers, audiophiles deserve seeing the measurements of gear. They are a clear indication of technical quality and designer approaches.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Yes, he does a great job measuring, but unfortunately his work trying to correlate measurements with subjective sound quality is almost nom existent, inconsistent and many times clearly biased by his admiration for the product sound quality.

As audio consumers, audiophiles deserve seeing the measurements of gear. They are a clear indication of technical quality and designer approaches.

i think Alkinson does as good a job as is possible to make sense of the measurements he does. i would much prefer to hear his own 2 cents, and his preferences, about the relevance of his numbers compared to anyone else, or just a tech coldly spouting numbers.

over the years we know John's perspectives so we can do our own adjusting.

he is a treasure. i will miss his part of Fremer's reviews going forward.

OTOH if i was cursed with engineering training i might see it differently.

 

[rando]

42?

The real answer only appears to those deemed worthy and even then with immense rarity does it show itself over their castle bathroom's roon core.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Yes, he does a great job measuring, but unfortunately his work trying to correlate measurements with subjective sound quality is almost nom existent, inconsistent and many times clearly biased by his admiration for the product sound quality.

As audio consumers, audiophiles deserve seeing the measurements of gear. They are a clear indication of technical quality and designer approaches.

The fun with J atkinson is that he is an open book about everything he does , its fun to read he doesnt lecture / presents himself as a know it all
Lets not forget he also does his own digital recordings and uses these with the gear he reviews .

 

[rando]

i think Alkinson does as good a job as is possible to make sense of the measurements he does. i would much prefer to hear his own 2 cents about the relevance of his numbers compared to anyone else, or just a tech coldly spouting numbers.

Your wording of how that was managed with dignity intact is as good as any.

The few interactions I've had with the senior JA were always a reciprocation of interests that is all too rare on the most common form of communication today. That extends to Kal and everyone else in close relation to his magazine I can remember with exception of noted keyboard warrior ML.

 

[morricab]

42?

But what is the question??

 

[morricab]

more like scientology if you ask me ;-)

They religiously believe in measurements and seem to be declaring gear as 'great' if the measurements are conform with what they think is important.

It's kind of a parody because there is no consideration for neuroscience or psychoacoustic perception...just color by numbers....

 

[Argonaut]

@ morricab
Quote
the horn defines the low frequency cutoff, not the Fs of the driver .

Yeah right.
How can a driver produce a in phase signal well below the Free air resonance of the membrane / motor system ??

If you might swallow your implication and scepticism for a few minutes, in this video the designer goes some way in explaining how the base horn of the Symphonia was designed, begin 1 minute in if you dont have the patience .

 

[MarcelNL]

If you might swallow your implication and scepticism for a few minutes, in this video the designer goes some way in explaining how the base horn of the Symphonia was designd, begin 1 minute in if you dont have the patience .

? that topic was discussed over a month ago

 

[Argonaut]

? that topic was discussed over a month ago

Indeed Marcel , however I have only just started reading the thread and considered that the question required an answer, as I haven’t read one thus far ( page 60 ).

 

[MarcelNL]

OK in that case I'll add some required reading material ;-)

https://www.grc.com/acoustics/an-introduction-to-horn-theory.pdf

 

[tima]

Did you read the article? "The K3 produced the best overall measurements I've encountered (figs.1 & 2), but not by large margins. " He does not need to write things like these at all, nor does he.

What I found interesting in MF's K3 review was this paragraph:

The "state of the art" motor control system used in the K3 is said to include an automated diagnostic and optimization procedure, but the design team found it sufficed only to get them "in the ballpark." Two years of programming and tweaking including blind testing totaling in excess of 1000 hours helped produce the final rotational performance. Weiss and Krebs found that, "much to their astonishment," the most minute speed changes were audible—"down to arc seconds of rotation." There are 1,296,000 arc seconds in one rotation.

 

[morricab]

What I found interesting in MF's K3 review was this paragraph:

The "state of the art" motor control system used in the K3 is said to include an automated diagnostic and optimization procedure, but the design team found it sufficed only to get them "in the ballpark." Two years of programming and tweaking including blind testing totaling in excess of 1000 hours helped produce the final rotational performance. Weiss and Krebs found that, "much to their astonishment," the most minute speed changes were audible—"down to arc seconds of rotation." There are 1,296,000 arc seconds in one rotation.

Reminds me of when people first learned about jitter in digital. No one could believe that nano seconds could be heard let alone picoseconds!

 

[caesar]

+1

Michael is the closest thing our industry has ever had to a celebrity.

Just hit youtube. Fremer has posted a small handful of videos. One had 7K+ views, most don't get up to 1.5K views - over 2 weeks.

And yes, I just double checked with my young child, it's the thousands place!

I'm usually the eternal optimist, but not looking good...

 

[Lee]

Just hit youtube. Fremer has posted a small handful of videos. One had 7K+ views, most don't get up to 1.5K views - over 2 weeks.

And yes, I just double checked with my young child, it's the thousands place!

I'm usually the eternal optimist, but not looking good...

Starting over on a new channel and rebuilding a 50K+ audience will take time. He’s already gone from 300 to 4,630 in a few weeks. He is actually kicking ass. And our advertising campaign is not even off the ground yet!

 

[Audiophile Bill]

it is confirmed that Michael Fremer did, in fact, buy the K3.

congrats to Michael! good for him. and good for Jonathan Weiss too.

“Today, the OMA K3 turntable, which has been providing great musical pleasure here for more than a year, exited the building. I can't afford it even at an accommodation price. If I could, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.”

edit


“Will I miss it? Maybe not, because it has been replaced by the prototype K3 that was here before the production unit arrived. The prototype is mechanically and sonically identical to the production version, different only in some cosmetics. OMA's Jonathan Weiss kindly spruced it up with a new, flat black paint job. I think I like this "punk" look better.

This version I can afford, and I'm buying it. The less-costly OMA K5 will soon make its debut. I look forward to reviewing that one, too.”

Stereophile

 

[Mike Lavigne]

“Today, the OMA K3 turntable, which has been providing great musical pleasure here for more than a year, exited the building. I can't afford it even at an accommodation price. If I could, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.”

edit


“Will I miss it? Maybe not, because it has been replaced by the prototype K3 that was here before the production unit arrived. The prototype is mechanically and sonically identical to the production version, different only in some cosmetics. OMA's Jonathan Weiss kindly spruced it up with a new, flat black paint job. I think I like this "punk" look better.

This version I can afford, and I'm buying it. The less-costly OMA K5 will soon make its debut. I look forward to reviewing that one, too.”

Stereophile

in case it's not crystal clear; Michael did buy a K3, the identically performing prototype. not the shiny new regular production model.

he is not buying the K5.

 

[BruceD]

“Today, the OMA K3 turntable, which has been providing great musical pleasure here for more than a year, exited the building. I can't afford it even at an accommodation price. If I could, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.”

edit


“Will I miss it? Maybe not, because it has been replaced by the prototype K3 that was here before the production unit arrived. The prototype is mechanically and sonically identical to the production version, different only in some cosmetics. OMA's Jonathan Weiss kindly spruced it up with a new, flat black paint job. I think I like this "punk" look better.

This version I can afford, and I'm buying it. The less-costly OMA K5 will soon make its debut. I look forward to reviewing that one, too.”

Stereophile

As an aside I'd like to give a shoutout to my good friend of nigh on 40 years

--Richard Krebs-one of the major players in the concept and design of the OMA table.

Kudos buddy on the success and recognition at last after you endeavours --enjoy the moment!

BD

 

[PeterA]

in case it's not crystal clear; Michael did buy a K3, the identically performing prototype. not the shiny new regular production model.

he is not buying the K5.

Mike, are you considering one of these turntables?