State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

[zerostargeneral]

What a performance.

 

[zerostargeneral]

Mr. Fuller on fire. Black drivers the king of the Tannoy vintage line.

 

[Elliot G.]

I really liked your reply and there is truth in it to think about. I do enjoy reading some articles/magazines more than others. You are correct that I am not seeing enough of what I want to read. Maybe that is just me. And I really appreciated you showing me a window into the reviewing process and how hard it is, including the space it all takes up literally. I couldn't imagine doing it. It does help to remember that it is a tough task and that certainly increases my appreciation for the authors.

I agree that I am not seeing enough of what I want to read, which is what I am expressing here in my own inarticulate and admittedly poor way that perhaps is not expressed well or clear enough: I'd like to see more story in reviews and less reviews in general perhaps or at least reviews that situate products in systems. I would like more transparency, the way Youtube reviewers of cameras say: Canon sent me his camera but I cannot keep it and they have no say over what I write... Or if magazines would address the advertising issues Roy mentions in the interview quoted above. What I feel is that the magazines aren't speaking of the audio world I inhabit, walk through and live in--the problems and issues me and my buddies are facing in our systems and the methods for solving them. What they are good at is telling me about new products and turning me on to new music. Some authors do better and I do feel like I get to know their journey, the music they love and why they choose the gear they do. Like any subject, some authors are fun to read and others are boring. I could be alone on this, and I am willing to be wrong about anything, but I do feel like the magazines are written for the benefit of the manufacturers/dealers rather than the music and gear lovers reading the magazine. And old timers often tell me it didn't used to be that way (though they say that about most things). I am not sure there is a solution to this issue, or if anyone on the magazine side even cares.

Well we have finally reached the end. The end? Yes the end . There is no way to please this group or any group it seems in todays world. On one hand having Roy Gregory explain his thought process and beliefs about audio/reviewing and systems is what one asks for and on the other hand feels this is ridiculous and insane. There we have it, the current situation in a nut shell. We can't have it both ways and everyone can never be pleased.
I personally am a believer that it is always the system we are listening too. The system includes the room, the gear, the seating, the power, the room treatment or lack off, the sources etc. Is this even a consensus among the participants of WBF? I wonder. Again on one hand this comes up and then boom "man let's have an a/b shootout between product one and product two. There are also those who " I need to see the measurements!" but wait not those measurement those are silly and I don't accept those.
Reviewing is not easy and if done correctly ( whatever that means) its done thoroughly and seriously then the reader must choose what is important to them and who if any to accept.
I give the example of a food or movie critic, which is what my definition of reviewer is, If I go to a suggest place and enjoy it I am more likely to follow that critics next recommendation and try that as well. If I didn't like I am less likely to ever read his/her again.
There is in the works a Youtube channel that will focus on the designer and getting to know them and their process and motivations. Coming Soon to a computer screen near you.

I also believe that there is a lack of transparency into the whole process. I am not saying or implying anything clandestine only that I don't believe most readers understand the process and how it actually works. I think Roy did address some of this in the article which started this thread.
I doubt that the problems of individuals and their system issues can be solved in a review or on an online forum. You may receive opinion, advice and possibly some direction but it seems that agreement is a prize buried very very deep.
One last thought for the day.
IMO all the really good systems that I have heard ( mentioned a few of WBFers) do more things alike than they do differently. I know I am insane and a heretic but maybe I'm not that crazy after all. Marty, Mike, Carlos etc. all are seeking to get the sound of music in their rooms. They may listen to different genres and artists but the end goal is MORE. More is bringing the music closer to them and enjoying it more. Jim Smith talks about ME, or musical enjoyment, I call this MORE. Stirling Trayle helps people get more from what they already own. Perhaps this is a path less traveled and needs more footprints. Perhaps Roy Gregory might have found something to try. Perhaps the A/B of listening to differences ( of all sorts) is not the correct path. Perhaps everyone's opinion is not equal. Perhaps there is a way to MORE audio enjoyment and IMO that path is in education.
The audio business has , not in all cases, taken advantage of the way it has made itself to further protect itself, and to keep much of the status quo intact!
Yes I am insane HAHA

 

[zerostargeneral]

@Bonzo,

You have unearthed some true gold as far as I am concerned.

Kindest regards,G.

 

[PeterA]

Produce that sound on your
Fynes

Awesome, even over my iPhone speaker. Very alive sound.

 

[rbbert]

Really. What do you think the old drivers were made of? And please, proprietary, means nothing.

So what is special about Beryllium? After Takajo San, a hifi and music critic joined Goto in the 60s, he led the R&D at Goto to record acoustic instruments live and to try and reproduce them through Goto drivers. Listening, rather than measurements, was his style. Goto’s R&D went down this road, and ended up changing their aluminum diaphragms (then the most widely used in Altec, JBL, Goto etc) to titanium. After that, Takajo San started recording sounds of chirping insects and other sounds from nature to test his drivers. This effort to reproduce sounds of nature led Goto to develop Beryllium diaphragms.

The Be diaphragms changed to duralumin in 2005 only because of the cost, as Be became very expensive due to countries using it for defense/atomic purposes. But their upper models continue to be Beryllium

Alnico motors changed to Ferrite once cost of Cobalt went up. Today Intact Audio and others who use autoformers are considered premium volume control, but Western Electric used inductive volume control 100 years ago. This was dropped for potentiometer in later decades due to cost. And today, quality Be drivers are expensive. Check the cost of Cessaro Gamma which uses TAD drivers. Check the quality of drivers till the 70s and the prices then.

You seem to be making my argument for me? You are discussing how expensive today's drivers are, contrary to your original assertion.

 

[Rhapsody]

Mr. Fuller on fire. Black drivers the king of the Tannoy vintage line.

What exact model of Tannoy's are these?

 

[bonzo75]

You seem to be making my argument for me? You are discussing how expensive today's drivers are, contrary to your original assertion.

I am saying quality drivers were used before. Proprietary means nothing, it could mean cheap drivers high profit margins. Rest is marketing spiel. Yes Cessaro gamma uses TAD 4001 in its expensive speakers so you can imagine what is used in other speakers of other brands. Back in the day TAD 4001 would have been used around more commonly in many speakers. There was nothing so high end or exotic about it as price today makes it out to be. Check on Lansing heritage forum how prevalent beryllium tad drivers are in speakers made by people with much lower budgets. That is because profit margins aren't involved.

 

[bonzo75]

@Bonzo,

You have unearthed some true gold as far as I am concerned.

Kindest regards,G.

ThomasK put that up first.

I still remember being amazed listening to art blakey monos on your system.

 

[bonzo75]

What exact model of Tannoy's are these?

It's got either the silver or the black driver. Black is extremely rare and very expensive. It is an autograph model..

 

[Rhapsody]

It's got either the silver or the black driver. Black is extremely rare and very expensive. It is an autograph model..

They are AMAZING!!!!

 

[bonzo75]

They are AMAZING!!!!

Amazing videos is my middle name

 

[Al M.]

Produce that sound on your
Fynes

What's supposed to be so special about this reproduction?

 

[bonzo75]

What's supposed to be so special about this reproduction?

It has to be heard. If you didn't, that's fine too. You can always try writing, painting, or reading

 

[Rhapsody]

What's supposed to be so special about this reproduction?

The openness, the room filling alive sound. Sounds amazing to me. I can sense the efficiency whatever it might be. Makes me want a pair, just for the heck of it!

 

[howiebrou]

It has to be heard. If you didn't, that's fine too. You can always try writing, painting, or reading

Ouch!

 

[bonzo75]

The openness, the room filling alive sound. Sounds amazing to me. I can sense the efficiency whatever it might be. Makes me want a pair, just for the heck of it!

I want to visit South Korea just to listen to it

 

[Al M.]

The openness, the room filling alive sound. Sounds amazing to me.

The aliveness I can easily achieve on my system, and more of that. After all, here we are just listening to a YouTube video of a system, not the system itself. As for the pronounced "openness", this is achieved by some frequency idiosyncrasies, at least as I hear it on my computer over my headphones. It is bought with a lack of tonal density and weight.

 

[Rhapsody]

The aliveness I can easily achieve on my system, and more of that. After all, here we are just listening to a YouTube video of a system, not the system itself. As for the pronounced "openness", this is achieved by some frequency idiosyncrasies, at least as I hear it on my computer over my headphones. It is bought with a lack of tonal density and weight.

Party pooper I love it! Seriously, makes me want a pair.

 

[Al M.]

Party pooper I love it! Seriously, makes me want a pair.

Well, I am just not impressed, sorry.