State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

I have to make one comment regarding distributors

I am aware that in a lot of cases distributors in the high end audio industry dont make a lot of sense due to the fact that the sales vol. is so low with a lot of products that there is not much to distribute .
So factory direct to dealer would make more sense especially in small countries

There are exeptions of distributors who certainly add value .
Reference sounds in NL is a good example , nice guy good service and marketing , nice listening room
 
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Well over 300 comments and counting…

It’s called a Think Piece for a reason. It doesn’t pretend to have all the answers but it is intended to get people to consider the issues – and it certainly seems to have done that. There’s the usual degree of partial consumption and selective comprehension, but hey, it’s an audio forum.

I’m not interested in protracted arguments and have my experiences and reasons for thinking as I do, many of which can’t be aired in public. But what’s more entertaining is the almost Pavlov response from Lee Scoggins. Do you think I touched a nerve? Suggest that there might be a glass ceiling and the first and loudest denials always come from the people who benefit from it – and they’re normally redolent with bluster and BS. Sadly (for him) simply stating a point of view doesn’t make it a fact and arranging those ‘facts’ in a row and repeating them doesn’t prove anything. Actions speak louder than words, so let’s look a little closer at the Scoggins modus operandi

His repeated citing of Wilson to argue against performance stagnation is bizarre. Not only am I a well-documented admirer of the latest Wilson speakers, but aren’t these the very essence of gradual evolution? Doesn’t that make them the antithesis of the sort of breakthrough developments and technologies that I’m suggesting are getting stifled? On the other hand, for every Wilson Audio that has moved forward, I can probably point to ten ‘established’ (and highly visible) companies that haven’t. Meanwhile, the Wadax Pre 1 was launched in 2010 and the significance and potential of its technology was clear to anybody willing to take note – it’s just that most of the major English Language titles didn’t bother. Over a decade later they’re only just recognising their mistake, while Mr Scoggins appears to still be in denial (see below).

At the same time he’s only too willing to ignore the fact that the Wilson WAMM MC and XVX have both received considerable attention in all of the serious, mainstream EL magazines: yet during the same period, the equally accomplished and interesting Tidal La Assoluta, Living Voice Vox Olympian/Palladian and Göbel Divin Majestic have been almost entirely absent from those pages – and that’s just four speakers that I’ve personally spent time with and can vouch for. I’m sure that you can list others. It’s an act of collective ignorance on the part of EL magazines that beggars belief. And before you point out that this just reflects what a great job Wilson and their distributors do, I agree. But isn’t it the job (and promise) of magazines and journalists to reach beyond the easy and the obvious?

On another thread on this site, our intrepid publisher is busy repeating potentially damaging, unsubstantiated and factually incorrect gossip about the measured performance of the WADAX Reference DAC, a product that has never been independently measured. He happily dons his TAS and Hi-Fi+ hats and puts it all out there online. Does he bother to check his facts or wonder about the motivation of their source? Why let the truth get in the way of a good story? I’m not sure what is more shocking: the fact that he did this or that he’s obviously ignorant of basic journalistic ethics and responsibilities. And no – he’s not posting as a private individual: not when his posts claim the status of Nextscreen CEO and publisher of multiple titles.

Then, when another poster expresses dismay at the fact that 80% of one print magazine is written by a single person, he’s at it again, apparently ignorant of the fact that the title in question is one of those he’s responsible for. You know Lee, I realise it’s hard for you to look past your own navel, but you couldn’t make this up – and you couldn’t do a much better job of proving my point. It’s priceless…

But hey, there is no and never was a glass ceiling operating in high-end audio… Take a look and you can see right through it!

On a purely factual level: he claims/describes me as a friend.

To the best of my knowledge, I’ve met him once. We’ve never had a conversation. And he absolutely, definitely isn’t on my Christmas card list…

And this is the guy that questions MY grasp on reality. Really?

Roy,

Thank you for your reply. While I had some major disagreements with your piece I do applaud the quality of it as a thought piece and it has certainly generated good discussion, for the most part, here on WBF. Let me address several key points:

1. Perhaps we have a misunderstanding here on what you meant by performance stagnation in the original article. I took it to mean that we had not had many performance improvements at all. I cited Wilson Audio due in part to my familiarity with the brand (I own two pairs of their speakers). Loudspeaker performance has improved dramatically since I started in the hobby in 1989. I believe there have been breakthroughs along the way. In the specific case of Wilson, they have made great strides in the design of their cabinet and drivers and are much more musical imho than previous efforts. Likewise, I feel that the Magico A5 which I know very well has had a real breakthrough in midrange driver performance. I believe the best solution is to help the industry grow so that innovators can invest more capital in R&D. Indeed, as some have been dismayed at the pricing with the growth of the ultra luxury segment, the business consultant inside of me has been gleeful as I know how that trickles down into better products and sound.

2. Breakthrough performance can be many things. The Ring DAC and Music2 chip are real breakthroughs in digital as is MQA. But my view is that the current industry structure does not prevent or hinder real breakthroughs at all. Where is there direct evidence of that? As far as Gobel goes, I am a huge fan and wrote several positive articles when I was working part-time for (ironically) Part-Time Audiophile. Likewise, I am working with Tidal now through my friend Doug White who was recently in town. We have been planning to visit Elliot Goldman's shop in Davie, Florida for a while to cover these brands as well as CH Precision which has won numerous awards from TAS and hifi+ but my duties as CEO and several major strategy initiatives have kept me away temporarily. I raved about Elliot's room sound at a prior AXPONA. I did an interview with Oliver Gobel at the last Munich show. I am hopeful for a factory tour in May.

3. The comments on the Wadax measurements was a mistake on my part and I quickly deleted the post once I realized I was not able to publicly share anything and mentioned the reason for doing so here. As an aside I am a huge fan of the Wadax DAC and heard it sounding excellent at the Capital Audio Fest in Elliot's room. I can't wait to hear it with his CH gear.

4. I feel the need to share some context about why print magazines are no longer "print magazines." At Nextscreen, Tom and I developed a new strategy where we are focusing on the key customer segments in the high end audio business. To do this, we have to recognize at what point each customer is on their customer lifecycle, ie. where are they on their journey. At different points along that journey, different channels have different importance. Essentially we are reaching people through a wide variety of channels to create awareness of new products and information that is valuable to the audiophile. For instance, we included several articles on system setup in our Global Dealer Showcase to help audiophiles. I personally feel, in part from working with Jim Smith, that system setup is way too often a missing critical component of good sound. I say all of this to suggest that TAS and hifi+ are doing all we can to feature new products and to bring new hobbyists into the fold. We don't always succeed but there is no intention of preventing any brand that isn't already a part of the status quo. Another example I can point to is our new video marketing program. Originally we expected this would work only for large, established organizations like Wilson and Magico and ARC and others. But we realized through discussions that we could offer a more modest price point with less work on our part to a small cable manufacturer who expressed interest.

5. I suspect if there is some sort of "glass ceiling" it is more one of bandwidth at the magazines as well as digital media in general. All of our reviewers at TAS and hifi+ have very full plates and we simply cannot cover every new and promising piece of gear. And we are reluctant to tackle brand new pieces as we don't want to recommend gear that may vanish quickly and create a doorstop for the consumer.

6. Alan Sircom is indeed writing a large share of reviews at hifi+ and we are addressing that. However, as a long-time reader going back to the first issue, I am grateful Alan is so productive. He's clearly one of the best writers out there and has a tremendous enthusiasm for the gear and music. One of my absolute favorite things about my job is to get to work with Alan. He is a real gem and quite hilarious in person.

I hope these points at least shed some light on my perspective. I am hopeful we can have an amicable discussion because I believe we both want more people to find the beauty and enjoyment of this hobby.
 
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A reviewer who purchases a component he/she reviewed for 50% of MSRP tells me information I personally find to be more probative and more valuable than a long, detailed and positive review of a component which the reviewer does not purchase. I find it highly informative when a reviewer puts his/her money where his/here ears are.
Agree 100%, even if I don't otherwise agree with the reviewer's conclusions.
 
Wrt 'transparency', what exactly are you talking about? Give two or three examples of obscurity or deception or something to back your opinion of too little transparency.
Personal discussions with a couple of reviewers and one distributor (unnamed to protect the innocent, but if anyone is really interested I can respond via PM if their identities are kept confidential - although feel free to contact them if you wish) who tell me that some ezines require payment and/or advertising for reviews or vice-versa (manufacturer/distributor requires a fee to provide a product for review); likewise with manufacturers/distributors "shopping" the different review outlets before deciding which might get a product for review.

I don't think any of this is "news", and therefore it might not qualify as an absolute lack of transparency. It is hopefully not very common or widespread (but the point is the readers don't know), and therefore perhaps even more important that it be disclosed if possible.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think its no more then normal that if a manufacturer wants to be in the magazine ( via a review) , he needs to buy some advertisement space .
How can a paper magazine otherwise survive.
Think other consumer high end magazines Boats , furniture what ever .
A online magazine has a bit less overhead costs i reckon
 
I think its no more then normal that if a manufacturer wants to be in the magazine ( via a review) , he needs to buy some advertisement space .
How can a paper magazine otherwise survive.
True; this also applies to the purely on-line review sites.
 
Well over 300 comments and counting…

It’s called a Think Piece for a reason. It doesn’t pretend to have all the answers but it is intended to get people to consider the issues – and it certainly seems to have done that. There’s the usual degree of partial consumption and selective comprehension, but hey, it’s an audio forum.

I’m not interested in protracted arguments and have my experiences and reasons for thinking as I do, many of which can’t be aired in public. But what’s more entertaining is the almost Pavlov response from Lee Scoggins. Do you think I touched a nerve? Suggest that there might be a glass ceiling and the first and loudest denials always come from the people who benefit from it – and they’re normally redolent with bluster and BS. Sadly (for him) simply stating a point of view doesn’t make it a fact and arranging those ‘facts’ in a row and repeating them doesn’t prove anything. Actions speak louder than words, so let’s look a little closer at the Scoggins modus operandi

His repeated citing of Wilson to argue against performance stagnation is bizarre. Not only am I a well-documented admirer of the latest Wilson speakers, but aren’t these the very essence of gradual evolution? Doesn’t that make them the antithesis of the sort of breakthrough developments and technologies that I’m suggesting are getting stifled? On the other hand, for every Wilson Audio that has moved forward, I can probably point to ten ‘established’ (and highly visible) companies that haven’t. Meanwhile, the Wadax Pre 1 was launched in 2010 and the significance and potential of its technology was clear to anybody willing to take note – it’s just that most of the major English Language titles didn’t bother. Over a decade later they’re only just recognising their mistake, while Mr Scoggins appears to still be in denial (see below).

At the same time he’s only too willing to ignore the fact that the Wilson WAMM MC and XVX have both received considerable attention in all of the serious, mainstream EL magazines: yet during the same period, the equally accomplished and interesting Tidal La Assoluta, Living Voice Vox Olympian/Palladian and Göbel Divin Majestic have been almost entirely absent from those pages – and that’s just four speakers that I’ve personally spent time with and can vouch for. I’m sure that you can list others. It’s an act of collective ignorance on the part of EL magazines that beggars belief. And before you point out that this just reflects what a great job Wilson and their distributors do, I agree. But isn’t it the job (and promise) of magazines and journalists to reach beyond the easy and the obvious?

On another thread on this site, our intrepid publisher is busy repeating potentially damaging, unsubstantiated and factually incorrect gossip about the measured performance of the WADAX Reference DAC, a product that has never been independently measured. He happily dons his TAS and Hi-Fi+ hats and puts it all out there online. Does he bother to check his facts or wonder about the motivation of their source? Why let the truth get in the way of a good story? I’m not sure what is more shocking: the fact that he did this or that he’s obviously ignorant of basic journalistic ethics and responsibilities. And no – he’s not posting as a private individual: not when his posts claim the status of Nextscreen CEO and publisher of multiple titles.

Then, when another poster expresses dismay at the fact that 80% of one print magazine is written by a single person, he’s at it again, apparently ignorant of the fact that the title in question is one of those he’s responsible for. You know Lee, I realise it’s hard for you to look past your own navel, but you couldn’t make this up – and you couldn’t do a much better job of proving my point. It’s priceless…

But hey, there is no and never was a glass ceiling operating in high-end audio… Take a look and you can see right through it!

On a purely factual level: he claims/describes me as a friend.

To the best of my knowledge, I’ve met him once. We’ve never had a conversation. And he absolutely, definitely isn’t on my Christmas card list…

And this is the guy that questions MY grasp on reality. Really?
Wow. This thread just got really interesting!! Roy, for someone who said they aren't interested in airing their rationale in public, you are certainly doing a fine job! Please carry on. Seriously. Your input enlivens the conversation.
 
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I get you started a pissing match Rudolph to what I don't know.
david
No David, I disagree with your comment on Roy’s interesting remarks and made that clear in a comment. Don’t try to create the false illusion that I misunderstood you.
 
No David, I disagree with your comment on Roy’s interesting remarks and made that clear in a comment. Don’t try to create the false illusion that I misunderstood you.
What was the comment that you disagree with?

david
 
This isn’t a new issue I’ve been saying many of same things about high end audio magazines since mid 90’s and then some. Looking back the same practices were prevalent in the 80’s too so my question is why now you’ve been doing this for a very long time?

david

Even if you were right: that as such is no reason at all to not bring this issue up again.

David never wrote that the topic should not be brought up and discussed again. He simply wrote that there is nothing new to the subject and asked Mr. Gregory why he decided to write the "thought piece" now. David asked a simple question to Mr. Gregory that you mistakenly construed as David not thinking the issue should be rehashed. That is not what David was saying. Why the curfuffle?

The topic of this thread is quite interesting, even if little or nothing is new, and it seems people want to discuss it again. I am also suddenly a bit curious about why Mr. Gregory wrote the article now. It's a good question.
 
I didn't comment I posed a question to Roy, what's your problem besides what you make up for yourself?

david
Not making up anything: your question implies that according to you ‘this practice’ already existed in the eighties and nineties and that Roy, him being part of this scene for many years - your words/suggestions, not mine - is not qualified to raise these still relevant issues.
 
Not making up anything: your question implies that according to you ‘this practice’ already existed in the eighties and nineties and that Roy, him being part of this scene for many years - your words/suggestions, not mine - is not qualified to raise these still relevant issues.
You're using some of my words to make up something I never said nor implied. I don't play your type of game.

david
 

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