State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

[awsmone]

In phones indeed there has been massive development .
Same like TV s

Cone tech is still a coil attached to a membrane moving in a magnet gap .

People even go back to older designs and conclude an old paper membrane still sounds more natural then the latest high tech ultra stiff composite .

Developments in tube amps seem to be a better capacitator .
While often claiming old tubes sound better , lol.

Or a "new" alnico magnet in a cone transducer
Afaik alnico was already in use in the fifties / sixties.

MBL is may be the most revolutionary transducer design whether you like it or not

Alnico was developed during WW2
an iron alloy of aluminium, nickel, and cobalt, with a very high gauss, lighter weight, and high curie point

jensen advertised in their speakers Alnico 5

 

[awsmone]

Here is an interesting comparison of a tiny horn system( though expensive) and Wilson Alexia

unfortunately not in the same acoustic

interested in people’s thoughts

 

[tima]

Here is an interesting comparison of a tiny horn system( though expensive) and Wilson Alexia

It is refreshing to hear positive comments about the Alexia.

Each of the video guys wants 20-25 minutes of your time. Play the best representation of each with full range music - 3 minutes of each at most. Then talk for 3 minutes - crisp succinct declarative sentences. Anyone can watch anything; maybe these should be rated for experience level.

 

[awsmone]

I have not heard the Alexia 2 myself, but was interested that 2 Stereophile reviewers considered it so highly
, (don’t hit me the nearest Wilson speaker is 3 hours drive away ok )

I have not been a Wilson fan, but have wondered as a crazy horn/panel guy if this might be my jump to Cone speakers as a classic music fan….(Ps Ked I still have my Altec horns and Esl 57 don’t panic or hyperventilate lo)

 

[bonzo75]

I have not heard the Alexia 2 myself, but was interested that 2 Stereophile reviewers considered it so highly
, (don’t hit me the nearest Wilson speaker is 3 hours drive away ok )

I have not been a Wilson fan, but have wondered as a crazy horn/panel guy if this might be my jump to Cone speakers as a classic music fan….(Ps Ked I still have my Altec horns and Esl 57 don’t panic or hyperventilate lo)

There are a few cones I like - Avalon, zellaton, Gauder, for example, though not in terms of value. Keep in mind that the guys on this forum who have experienced horns and vintage have experienced both. Because cones are easy to experience, at least in Europe and the US. That is why I call Wilson owners non discerning, they have gone for what they found in the their initial search and easy. They stayed with it, just upgrading in size and budget, without really trying to dig.

This is what I had posted on another thread

KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

I would go even further that high quality high power amplification doesn’t exist. Brad, I was recently told something very similar by a friend of mine.

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[awsmone]

There are a few cones I like - Avalon, zellaton, Gauder, for example, though not in terms of value. Keep in mind that the guys on this forum who have experienced horns and vintage have experienced both. Because cones are easy to experience, at least in Europe and the US. That is why I call Wilson owners non discerning, they have gone for what they found in the their initial search and easy. They stayed with it, just upgrading in size and budget, without really trying to dig.

This is what I had posted on another thread

KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

I would go even further that high quality high power amplification doesn’t exist. Brad, I was recently told something very similar by a friend of mine.

www.whatsbestforum.com

Interesting Ked

what I have heard is a lot of accuton driver cones, though they have a slight texture, they have much to admire sound wise
unfortunately this comes with exalted prices, given the expense of even the diamond tweeters , let alone other accuton drivers

I also have had a soft spot for the middle range Martens , have you heard these ? Mingus or Parker

 

[bonzo75]

Interesting Ked

what I have heard is a lot of accuton driver cones, though they have a slight texture, they have much to admire sound wise
unfortunately this comes with exalted prices, given the expense of even the diamond tweeters , let alone other accuton drivers

I also have had a soft spot for the middle range Martens , have you heard these ? Mingus or Parker

jazzhead has a very nice Marten Coltrane II set up. I heard it with Vitus but he has other amps now. Will listen again at in a few months

I haven't heard the big Marten. Or the 4 tower ones.

 

[bonzo75]

I should add the one major advance to me is the ability to view concerts these days I could never get to see in person in high quality

the digital concert hall of the Berlin philharmonic is wonderful ,

One of the best systems I heard he had 3 quad 2905s in front, and two stand amount surround sound. He ran it with modded musical fidelity amps. He played multichannel CDs, only classical, or streamed from channels like the Berlin's. It was great, I couldn't stop watching the Carmen Opera on his big screen, or mahler's 2nd on blue ray by Abbado

 

[Sampajanna]

Interesting Ked

what I have heard is a lot of accuton driver cones, though they have a slight texture, they have much to admire sound wise
unfortunately this comes with exalted prices, given the expense of even the diamond tweeters , let alone other accuton drivers

I also have had a soft spot for the middle range Martens , have you heard these ? Mingus or Parker

I have Mingus Quintets. They are brilliant. Absolutely stunning. So sweet and transparent and image beyond belief...

 

[howiebrou]

Interesting Ked

what I have heard is a lot of accuton driver cones, though they have a slight texture, they have much to admire sound wise
unfortunately this comes with exalted prices, given the expense of even the diamond tweeters , let alone other accuton drivers

I also have had a soft spot for the middle range Martens , have you heard these ? Mingus or Parker

Mingus Orchestra is very good. My old Marten Coltrane II was very good as well.

 

[PeterA]

Welcome

i don’t think the idea of the videos is to critique, but to experience other systems
peterA videos have been highly enjoyable, because they are a little window on his system which is quite unique , some times I feel like I am in his listening position in his room

I think it is too complex a process to say this system is good or bad imho

thank you for taking the trouble to share

Thank you awsmone. I mostly post system videos on my own virtual system thread. They are meant to supplement the written description of what I’m doing as I develop my system, to share some music, and for entertainment. I also used them for sharing information with DDK regarding set up and fine tuning issues. They can be very useful tools.

I have posted specific genre videos in the genre video threads to show an alternative to what other people are posting, but for the most part my videos are simply additional information to go along with the narrative of my system thread. In some cases, my videos do demonstrate and illustrate changes. It is simply additional information to be shared.

it will be interesting to see how hobbyists and the industry utilizes them going forward.

 

[SlapEcho]

Welcome

i don’t think the idea of the videos is to critique, but to experience other systems
peterA videos have been highly enjoyable, because they are a little window on his system which is quite unique , some times I feel like I am in his listening position in his room

I think it is too complex a process to say this system is good or bad imho

thank you for taking the trouble to share

Hi and thank you awsmone,

My intent was not to necessarily to invoke critique. I've prowled around in the dark here enough to witness some charismatic and rather engaging member interactions. Totally get the concept of politeness and feeling of inclusion, but was just saying for me in that grey area department, please do, if one feels the need. With all that said, your point is well taken.

I personally also enjoy peterA's(actually pretty much all WBF) members videos. Gives me insight to others point of view and what I may or may not be missing.

 

[SlapEcho]

Welcome to posting at WBF!

That video actually sounds good! I enjoyed it.

Thanks AI M.!

 

[bonzo75]

I personally also enjoy peterA's(actually pretty much all WBF) members videos. Gives me insight to others point of view and what I may or may not be missing.

I respect your openness.

 

[SlapEcho]

Alnico was developed during WW2
an iron alloy of aluminium, nickel, and cobalt, with a very high gauss, lighter weight, and high curie point

jensen advertised in their speakers Alnico 5

Agreed that it seems that there hasn't been significant breakthroughs in audio reproduction. Guessing that major gap ups require significant breakthroughs in the understanding of physics and then some period for household technology to catch up. It does look like the tech has hit some kind of Moore's Law in which the main focus is better refinement of older tech but approaching an exponential limiting wall, the newer wheel still remains a wheel.

One of the biggest areas I see for significant improvement is the loudspeaker. The idea of using electrical energy to vibrate mass that inherently has resonate modes(Fs, harmonics, breakups, etc.) is an evolutionary stepping stone but could be worked on. Physics dictates in order to achieve that perfect impulse response zero mass is required(yes I know - or infinite energy), so lighter diaphragms is a must, but it come with a host of technological issues we all know.

An way around that IMO that is plasma arc technology(I am not talking about Tesla coil "toys"). I think there is plenty room to grow there. Although I haven't physically been present to hear a Lansche(Not aware of any dealers within my area) from what I've garnered(Again there goes that YouTube thing!), the sound reproduction(currently only high frequency) is promising. There are of course tech issues to overcome(e.g. - EMI, ozone generation, heat and chemical corrosion on electrodes, and others) I think there is plenty of area for improvement. I imagine in the future plasma speakers would not just reproduce high frequencies but extend down to lower frequencies. I think that would be fascinating!

 

[SlapEcho]

I respect your openness.

As do I.

 

[microstrip]

What speakers are you switching to now that your Wilsons are gone? Are these ones going to be driven properly by your Lamms, or still the same same?

Currently setting up temporary Raidho TD4.8's using the conrad johnson GAT2- ART monoblocks.

At this moment I still have hope that someone wants to buy my Lamm's - nothing I have read or listened encourages me to spend money on speakers for them. Unfortunately it seems that prospective buyers think the same ...

 

[microstrip]

My real opinion of the industry is that its static due to basically the same tech used over the past 60 years .

We could feel tempted to say more than 60 years - the standard is stereo and it is real limitation.
However technology has improved along the years and our current SOTA sound stereo reproduction is very different from what we had at the 50's or 60's. IMHO the best achievement along the years was a better understanding of the psychoacoustics of stereo and understanding listener preference, the essence of the high-end.

Real progress would be something like hologram projections and a completely different way of recording the musical signal and reproducing it.
Complete new tech as we see in a lot of other industries.

We have multichannel, a much more accurate way of reproducing the real event. People still debate why listeners still prefer the more inaccurate two channel stereo.

Ps we have seen the digital revolution off course in the eighties that was completely new tech , but whether this was better is still highly debated

Only a few heroic resistant fighters still debate it. Surely if limit ourselves to WBF we get such idea ...

Ps micro i m curious as to what you buy next .
May be it would be worth to try the ML 3 /Ll 1 sign on a different transducer

I am also curious on this question. My main limit is that the speaker should not be be taller than 5 foot. My future listening room is wide and large, probably I will make a few experiments using heavily modified Quad ESL63 - 2 pairs for stereo, 7 speakers for multichannel.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

We could feel tempted to say more than 60 years - the standard is stereo and it is real limitation.

i think it's entirely sufficient. but i'm no engineer, i'm just a consumer. choice of perspective.

However technology has improved along the years and our current SOTA sound stereo reproduction is very different from what we had at the 50's or 60's. IMHO the best achievement along the years was a better understanding of the psychoacoustics of stereo and understanding listener preference, the essence of the high-end.

for playback, yes. but music access, big forward steps. more music, to more people. that is progress.

We have multichannel, a much more accurate way of reproducing the real event. People still debate why listeners still prefer the more inaccurate two channel stereo.

having invested in a serious (dedicated Dolby 9.3.6 w/Trinnov processor) object based multi-channel system, i don't think you can say it's a more accurate way of reproducing the event. it's a different way, and when combined with visuals can do things that are very effective.

Only a few heroic resistant fighters still debate it. Surely if limit ourselves to WBF we get such idea ...

trade-offs with the best stereo reproduction. and recording a real event in multi-channel is a mess mostly. but maybe they will figure it out. it has a higher theoretical ceiling.....that i will agree with.

I am also curious on this question. My main limit is that the speaker should not be be taller than 5 foot. My future listening room is wide and large, probably I will make a few experiments using heavily modified Quad ESL63 - 2 pairs for stereo, 7 speakers for multichannel.

maybe the Wolf Von Lange or Tobian......for a 'not tall' speaker both seem to be interesting.

 

[bonzo75]

Quads will be better than the smaller WVL imo.

Yes recording is not big in MCH but I think for a digital guy MCH is great plus micro has stereo option. Very difficult to beat quads in realism except on macro slams and bass, but he is micro not macro