The 'great leaps in playback' and the purported advances in contemporary digital seem more a function of changes in file format than anything else. While it's all ones and zeroes, the 'leaps' are actually introduction of new technologies. It kinda mirrors the so called PC revolution from standalone desktop computers (CD players) to client server (file servers) to the internet (streaming).
The 'great leaps in playback' and the purported advances in contemporary digital seem more a function of changes in file format than anything else. While it's all ones and zeroes, the 'leaps' are actually introduction of new technologies. It kinda mirrors the so called PC revolution from standalone desktop computers (CD players) to client server (file servers) to the internet (streaming).
True, but also things like improvements in the Ring dac with Apex. FPGA improvements in filters. Better streaming technology. Better analog output stages. Better clock cables play a role as well. Better interfaces like dual AES.
I will add that there is a significant amount of technical infrastructure behind WBF that allows it to provide its services 24/7 around the globe to multiple concurrent users. While it may be self supporting, the owner's commitment to investment sufficient to do it right is what allows us to interact every day in a quality way.
I could send everything I bought from David Karmeli and he will pay me back 100% of what I paid him. In fact, he told me this was an option if I didn’t like the system once it was set up in my house. He will simply sit on it and sell it for more money in the future. Unlike most gear, these items are appreciating assets.
Tima and I agreed that neither of us has every heard a cartridge sound as convincing, believable, or natural as ddk's Neumann cartridge. Tang is pretty impressed with his too.
Actually much more than pretty impressed sir. I was just taking a more humble approach in the way I write. So you didnt read me gobsmacking anything. The Dava cart we all reading in another thread is I bet also rooted from its designer impress of the original Neumann sound. It is his attempt to better the Neumann.
I’m sitting here trying to imagine my Porsche friends bitch about price and complain that performance has been stagnant.
Nope, can’t imagine it. They are too busy talking about recent track day fun and faster lap times.
What is it about audio that attracts such a joyless group of people living in the past to audio fora?
P.S. A large part of the price increases has been the emergence of an ultra-luxury segment in high end audio. That is good because it subsidizes less expensive gear and injects new tech into lower priced items.
I could send everything I bought from David Karmeli and he will pay me back 100% of what I paid him. In fact, he told me this was an option if I didn’t like the system once it was set up in my house. He will simply sit on it and sell it for more money in the future. Unlike most gear, these items are appreciating assets.
I certainly agree that digital recording has improved sonically over the decades, and that digital playback has improved sonically over the decades.
I, personally, do not understand the affection for the sound quality of early Marantz (and other now vintage) CD players. But I think that technological advances by Lampizator and MSB have made digital sound much better over time.
My personal opinion is there are far more audio cheapskates than other hobbies. People value the deal more than the sound, which usually ends compromised.
How people listen to music is a major factor in the choice of audio gear. At this time I have zero interest in listening to an album from start to finish. Back in ancient times when only records and turntables were dominate I lost count of how many albums I had to rebuy after I ruined a record trying to only play the “good” songs. I now add all new digital albums to a playlist and listen to the playlist on random shuffle. I’m doing that now for the last three hours, and will easily go another three hours.
Well haven’t heard a WADAX...yet...at least not that was memorable and haven’t heard a DCS product yet that I could live with and the setups I heard with MSB also were underwhelming...SO, that would mean many vintage DACs I would prefer...all of the R2R or ladder variety. I realize they might, in some cases, have lower resolution but that’s not all there is to good sound.
Who wants to resurrect the car enthusiast analogy for new vs. vintage? I am fairly sure the number of vintage auto enthusiasts is far greater than the number of vintage audio enthusiasts; it may even be a higher percentage of total car enthusiasts than in audio. While there is an argument for more enjoyment from a vintage car (exotic, muscle, etc) there can't be more than a handful that actually offer performance comparable to current cars, and even that is only if the actual comparison is carefully chosen.
Analogy doesn’t hold up under scrutiny because what constitutes performance is clearly and measurably defined in cars and not so in audio...that is why 1930s theater speakers can sound at least as real as a modern megabuck speaker...
I did not make any claims about Wilson being the “end all of speakers”. I took the WAMM example as it was a fresh example in my mind from Axpona and it represented an early flagship design of its day.
I certainly agree that digital recording has improved sonically over the decades, and that digital playback has improved sonically over the decades.
I, personally, do not understand the affection for the sound quality of early Marantz (and other now vintage) CD players. But I think that technological advances by Lampizator and MSB have made digital sound much better over time.
In digital it is with modern. The Marantz is too low res. Anyway these are not survivors. Horns and horn drivers from the vintage era are survivors that had stood the test of time. People with money and knowledge choose to buy them. Same with LP recordings. These guys don't choose to buy the Marantz, that is only with vintage owners who have zero interest in digital so buy a cheap CD player.
Analogy doesn’t hold up under scrutiny because what constitutes performance is clearly and measurably defined in cars and not so in audio...that is why 1930s theater speakers can sound at least as real as a modern megabuck speaker...
Yep, who's the 2022 drummer who bests Buddy Rich, bassist who bests Jaco Pastorius, guitarist who bests Jimi Hendrix, vocalist who bests (take your choice)?
No need to be sorry Keith. I suspect Lamm is little different from other brands in this regard. That is a different subject. My comment had nothing to do with new/used, only that my dealer would buy it back from me for what I paid and sell it later for more. It was more about the dealer and the value of certain vintage gear.
Well i ll report back on the state of the industry after i ve come back from the MOC in Munchen.
I was a frequent show go er from 2004 till 2010 after that i lost interest .
Shows means mostly mediocre sound with an enourmous emphesize on shiny big cables and monstrous " power condtioners " hardly a thing of music lovers interest .
While the positive stand outs were always the Peter mc grath demos with wilson for me .
What mostly ruins show performance is lousy set ups i suppose , but it is possible
I ll go to this show ( take some time off ) to give it another chance but it could well be my last one.
I d rather go on a nice holiday.
Some dealer shows is another story , some know how to put a good musical system together
I have heard several 200 -400 K set ups with topnotch DCS .
Apart from the impressive price and and large stack of boxes , i prefer they would have put in a far more rhythmic player like an ML 390 S .
And whether the new digital has more resolution is highly debatable .
I do agree speaker resolution has somewhat improved ( got more refined ) over the years .
But what is resolution without rhythm / musicality , not much .
Probably most of the " better latest digital sound " people talk about is due to a bit more refined speakers overall these days which lets you hear proper digital resolution / capabilities in the first place .
Personally one of the best digital i ve heard is from Zanden audio.
@ Lee what id urge your reviewers to do is swap the names you mentioned for an ML 30.6 or the Zanden stack Zanden came out with years ago , see if they still hold their story .
I know it doesnt make any business sense so they ll never do it , and even if they did it we ll probably never hear about it.
yes, but they are the “enlightened ones“, sent out like apostles to spread the “ good news” that natural sound is amongst us, cast out your cone driver devils, and go forth and multiply your horns with the holy SET spirit , and the analog trinity
Yep, who's the 2022 drummer who bests Buddy Rich, bassist who bests Jaco Pastorius, guitarist who bests Jimi Hendrix, vocalist who bests (take your choice)?
I'm not sure what "bests" is supposed to mean in this context? Pastorius and Hendrix were great. There are quite a few other great drummers, bassist and guitarists of equal stature in my opinion since and today. It would be pretty sad if that were not the case. Not to derail the thread....
