State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

[tima]

Thank you Mike for your perspective. Just the other day someone was telling me how rigid I was before always upgrading within the Pass solid state line and my Magico speakers and my SME turntables.

I don't know about rigid but you seem happier and more at ease with yourself. The fact you write so well of your new and old systems, whether people like them or not, is a real contribution to WBF. Enjoying what one hears and their enjoyment at sharing their joy does not come at anyone else's expense. Articulate posts are fun to read.

I suppose Mike would make the same remark of me, that is, that I don't see the hardness in the disparity of preferences and opinions, although I'll get testy now and then. There is still some of that around, often reactionary, and some folks seem more focused on criticizing (forum members, reviewers, magazines, etc.) than making positive contributions, but I try to let it pass. I used to feel it more. It's versailles, an audio salon, there will be sniping and strong differences of opinion but we will be here again tommorrow. I began to reflect on bonzo's words that one needs exposure to more different approaches before rejecting others, and realized that did apply to me. He may seem harsh, but is not mean and he is more mellow yet still calls a spade a spade. I do not see bad intent in the people who are making positive contributions, I hope others make positive contributions more.

 

[christoph]

I have Wilson Alexia 2s with Audio Research Ref amplifiers. Dynamics are terrific!

Compared to what?
Wilson Sabrina and the lower Audio Research amps?

 

[bonzo75]

I am unsure what these advanced materials are
aluminium is not new aeroplanes during Second World War used it
carbon fibre was invented in 1860, and high performance carbon fibre in 1958
high tensile strength carbon fibre in 1963
wilson benesch used carbon fibre 1994
if you consider at least 28 year old technology advanced , that describes well the state of the industry
zellatons cone technology is I think over 85 years old
kellogg and rice invented cone speakers and granted patent in 1925

Price tags have advanced, not the materials

 

[tima]

I too would love to see more of this. Even if it is a path I won’t follow, I love reading about the evolution of your system and thoughts, outlook and philosophy! I think the magazines should do more of this as well.

I agree with you and @Peter about personal system threads and individual audio journeys. Imo, they are not suited for the formal publications (in-print and online). However - you will find such in individual component reviews by the better writers. They do not lay it out formally as such, but share vignettes of their thoughts on preferences and sometimes a bit of component history. Maybe it is not so common that people take notice but it enhances reviews and you can find it (no always) if you look.

While it is not really my end of things, I don't think these are suited for publications because that is not the purpose of publications, at least as I understand them. The primary job of publications is to bring new gear to the fore - not so much to make you want it but to create interest in the reader to explore something that catches his eye. /edit and to spur interest and excitement in the hobby, that is not a system thread goal. /closedit And, truth be told - it's no secret - they are in business - granted, one they may love - but without revenue they cannot sustain on circulation only.

I think personal system descriptions and journeys are perfectly suited to forums such as WBF. It gives us the opportunity to interact much more intimately with the writer, probe his thoughts, ask why he made the choices he did. This is far more than a mere equipment listing. But don't get me wrong, I think we all should post our systems in the 'about ' section of our profiles - no one should be reluctant or afraid to do this - be proud of your system even if it pales to the elites. More visitors (yes you anonymous lurker) should register if for no reason to tell what is in your system and let us know you are there - we're from all over the world

 

[tima]

We all have biases.

And thank goodness for it. It would be a smashing bore if we didn't. Relish in biases, recognize them and your own - they spur conversation. And just because groups (so called tribes, I don't like that term) share biases should not be a problem if you have confidence in your own preferences. And if you don't then at least consider those - you may find something attractive.

 

[tima]

Well why should they post their 200 K plus efforts , if those efforts can be easily beaten by some old DIY horns and a cheap Set

I think that's silly perhaps naive.

Yes, there not so smart rich people, there are keep-up-with-the-joneses-people and their are impress their friends people, and there are newest, latest greatest people - none is unique to audio. BUT - people with the oppoutinity to explore how they choose to spend their money is what a free society is all about. Thank gawd we don't have some goon in EU Headquarters telling us what audio standards to follow or they'll cancel us.

Sure I'd like to acquire exactly what I want. I've built my systems over time and learned as I go and I'm not ashamed of what I like or have or want to pursue or the fact I still have lots to learn. It actually sounds poor & defensive to put down nice systems (audiogonish if i dare) because they are nice or different from what you like or cost more than you can afford. So cut it out! Consider that many, most 200k++ system owners are smart and actually know what they want, while continuing to refine with expenditures to their systems. Viva What' Best!

 

[bonzo75]

Perhaps a parallel there for the state of the industry?

Separately, cricket has gone downhill too, because of T20. It is the mp3 equivalent to the tapes of 5 day test cricket, or the 5 minute pop song to the long symphony. There is therefore a loss of talent in certain aspects.

In video spirit, how SS cone owners feel when they listen to a good pair of SETs horns

 

[andromedaaudio]

I think that's silly perhaps naive.

Yes, there not so smart rich people, there are keep-up-with-the-joneses-people and their are impress their friends people, and there are newest, latest greatest people - none is unique to audio. BUT - people with the oppoutinity to explore how they choose to spend their money is what a free society is all about. Thank gawd we don't have some goon in EU Headquarters telling us what audio standards to follow or they'll cancel us.

Sure I'd like to acquire exactly what I want. I've built my systems over time and learned as I go and I'm not ashamed of what I like or have or want to pursue or the fact I still have lots to learn. It actually sounds poor & defensive to put down nice systems (audiogonish if i dare) because they are nice or different from what you like or cost more than you can afford. So cut it out! Consider that many, most 200k++ system owners are smart and actually know what they want, while continuing to refine with expenditures to their systems. Viva What' Best!

Tima i was being sarcastic / joking.

On a more serious note this will be the first room i ll visit at HIFI deluxe friday 20 th
It should be able to give a impression of the current state of the industry .

Quote

We from Kroma Audio speaker manufacture from Spain would like to invite the WBF members to our room in Hifideluxe.

We will premier the new Flagship Turandot together with Gryphon Apex Power amp, Commander preamp plus Wadax Reference Dac. Also premier of RMD Audio Reference Tape Preamp and Reference phono preamp.

The smallest system will premier smaller Kroma speaker with Viola Audio Labs.

 

[tima]

I don't think he is entirely joking, and Mike L.'s post reinforces this. Although your "natural sound" thread is not entirely to blame, it did seem to trigger more widespread "thread hijacking" (for lack of a better term) by what I call the horns/SET/system videos crew (although some of this group don't have horns in their main system and some don't post system videos; heck, one of the most frequent posters doesn't even have a home audio system).

I call BS on this. "To blame" - of all the prententious condescending gall.

The fact that people who enjoy what @Peter wrote, people who whom you "call the horns/SET/system videos crew" responded favorably is nowhere close to what you call "thread hijacking". We all know the risks we taking in posting positive contributions about our systems - we know there will be push back - Peter and MikeL certainly understand this and many enjoy reading what they write. Look at Davids Turntable threads or Tango's thread - fine positives contribution. And guess what, while sometimes one doesn't like a thread wandering too far afield, people undertanding there will pushback or out right disagreement and people still do it and that is okay. It's not some mythical Hakuna Matatta. Why don't you start a thread about your tape machine and your system and what music you like, instead of all the faux meta-critique?

 

[tima]

Tima i was being sarcastic / joking

Obviously I did not read you as joking. Perhaps you were. There is no sarcasm emoji. Try this: put "/sarc" at the end of such a post.

edit: s & g

 

[andromedaaudio]

Obviously I did not read you as joding. Perhaps you were. There no sarcasm emoji. Try this: put "/sarc" at the end of such a post.

If i post horn reactions these days you can count on them being all sarcastic , unless i mention otherwise.
I never wanted it to come so far , but it has unfortunately

 

[tima]

But would we converge on that assessment??

I rarely disagree with you Brad and I understand your point. But I trust neither you nor Lee no I need convergence to enjoy what we have.

 

[tima]

If i post horn reactions these days you can count on them being all sarcastic , unless i mention otherwise.
I never wanted it to come so far , but it has unfortunately

I don't believe people are appreciating that universal opprobrium given reactions. Try the "/sarc" - you might like it.

 

[awsmone]

I don't believe people are appreciating that universal opprobrium given reactions. Try the "/sarc" - you might like it.

This may be an example of the Poe effect, where internet comments cannot be pejoratively determined

 

[tima]

This may be an example of the Poe effect, where internet comments cannot be pejoratively determined

Okay - nice point. When I think Poe, I think ravens.

 

[tima]

There is a marked difference between just having enthusiasm for one's approach vs. claiming absolute superiority of one's approach and/or putting down other approaches, as some do.

Sure, I can go along with that. However it sounds like you are kinda amping up what you perceive as put downs or claims to absolute superiority. Point at some threads that are examples of what you describe and that you have experienced and I will understand you better.

 

[tima]

… and there’s always been tribes in this hobby, from amp, source format and speaker type down to specific brands. Why the beat up on any group who are just expressing their love for certain approaches is beyond me. Sure if people want to constantly aggressively go at other people’s choices negatively then the battles of swords and torches is a likely follow on. However because people are sharing positively what they are doing then for others who just prefer other gear to complain about that is maybe just not the best aspect of our culture.

If discussion is happening within ways that fit within the scope of threads so that people are reflecting on their experiences and making positive contributions and we are building culture and opening up understanding then if there are developing and shifting trends in topics perhaps that is the way things just find their way forward.

Surely if any want to share and drive their specific area of topic or gear love then go for it. It will either take and develop or it won’t. But to whinge because others want to discuss something that they have found meaningful for them (and simply others haven’t) isn’t really that valid. I’d add that the carry on does seem to be becoming something of a scapegoating beat up at any rate. So much drama so little time .

For me the big opportunity is to better develop specific understanding as to why different people find different approaches to be best for them. Defining the underlying nature in our preferences rather than just battling away with the I’m right you’re wrong approach. That may actually increase our mutual understanding and also of the why within us.

Yes, well put, but directed to the wrong person.

 

[tima]

Sorry all for my ranting tonight, sometimes things build up. I"m done ... for now.

 

[morricab]

I rarely disagree with you Brad and I understand your point. But I trust neither you nor Lee no I need convergence to enjoy what we have.

You disagree with my question?

 

[awsmone]

Price tags have advanced, not the materials

It’s actually , when you get into it, suprising how old most of the technology is

i mean ladder dacs go back to the 80s, with MSB technology proclaiming
the ring dac dates to late 90s, not exactly new, and is it relevant with modern FPGA

it’s interesting how much Lee is pushing the Apex dac tech with its release UPCOMING !

Okay - nice point. When I think Poe, I think ravens.

nice segue, but its like a ‘the Birds” film of audio equipment , there is so much equipment peddling, like a crow pecking a cows eyes; I am beginning to think the “ natural sound movement” has struck a chord ( pun unfortunate but also kind of funny) that not all is not rosy in the “technically advanced camp” that Lee is pushing and lecturing us on high from his mighty TAS pulpit ( ps they don’t do measurements ….could that be none of them could actually interpret them, or might expose their first Tier components inadequacy ?…… conspiracy, conspiracies, a horse for my conspiracies)