State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

[rbbert]

There may be some finesse in your numbers with the Canada to US exchange rate fluctuations, but within the US, the Dollar purchasing power has almost been cut in half since 1995.

View attachment 92570
https://www.inflationtool.com/us-dollar/1995-to-present-value

Which is consistent with what I posted. You forget that the price for the speakers was in Canadian dollars, so you need to look at both the exchange rate and the slightly different inflation rate for Canada. Even if you look only at the US price in 1995 and compare it to today it's not close to $14-15k.

 

[bonzo75]

well, er, the forum has tended toward polarization recently......the last few years. videos or not, horns or not. vintage or not. cones and domes or not. uber digital or not. natural or not. one way being more righteous or not. people withdraw into themselves. life is too short to invite conflict.

these divisions have slowed down the draw to open up about things.....as the camps close ranks in most debates. we would rather debate the direction of general things, bad omens about hifi, and.......not.......the joy of individual discovery.

there are exceptions for sure. the Extreme thread, maybe the Lampi Horizon thread.....where it's more joyous and harmonious. i know when i get the urge to share an insight, it's easier to just stay quiet. i still do it some. but not as much. and i feel less connected to members than i had prior.

maybe it's a natural progression of the forum. i'm sure we can all point fingers if we think about it. blame it on COVID, or Putin.

While I agree with your last three paras, the first para I thought I would overlay with my perspective.

videos or not, horns or not. vintage or not. cones and domes or not. uber digital or not. natural or not. one way being more righteous or not.

These all are quite different.. What I have underlined there was the forum default, and the other was the new comer.

Taking one by one...

Videos or not: not was the default. It is not the video guys that imposed themselves it is the guys who did not want to post videos that did. I totally understand why some don't want to post videos, I do not understand why they keep attacking videos though, instead of taking the positives from them. The discussions of to or not to is what led to the tribalism but the attack started with the non posters pointing out how videos were pointless. Which obviously triggered the defence.

Horns or not: I actually addressed this in detail in another post why horns grew in popularity on WBF from a few years ago. There has also been an increase of horn/ set owners and DIY people. That for me is clear progression. Raise your hands who haven't heard Wilson or Magico. You will struggle to find a regular audiophile who hasn't. It is just a question of how many set ups have you heard. On the other hand, we have very senior audiophiles here gone through their multi decade journey without hearing proper horns.

Worse, their lack of knowledge makes them not appreciate the nuance and they think all horns and all horn people are one. There used to be digital only guys who would think all analog is one and if you have heard one table you have heard them all. When we know less about something, it is all one homogenous whole.

There were attacks on horns from the guys who hadn't heard them as horns being only shouty or cuppy. They would point to random efficient speakers (as has happened on this thread) and claim horn experience. That was the forum default. The ones posting the most anti horn on this thread are the ones who have heard almost none.

Vintage or not: a bit similar to horns, raise your hands if you haven't heard modern. There is nothing to suggest to people to try out in modern, trying out modern gear is the default. It will happen automatically. It is vintage that you need to push people to check out as it needs more effort in research.

Uber digital or not. That's always going to be the case. Crazy prices everywhere and people should rightly question the value. It is not only for digital. Questioning value, imo, should be the default. A product really has to prove itself to command any decent price. The horn guys showed their skepticism towards a 174,500 USD priced horn as well.

Natural or not: I agree with you that, pinpoint, and black was overdone and in too many places with too many parallel threads. As was resolution. But this, unlike horns, vintage, high priced goods, or videos, is a concept or a philosophy. The others are more tangible.

Ps: my previous post addressing why I think horns grew on this forum https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/how-hi-fi-has-become-a-standard-unto-itself.33565/post-746232

 

[Tango]

An interesting interview with Audio Note about the state of the audio industry

Interesting indeed. Thanks Howie for posting.

"I do my best for the riches to spread their wealth." That's really funny but real. Very interesting guy.

 

[awsmone]

Lee mentioned about dynamics of the Wilson’s

i thought this video which is same model as PeterA might be of interest

 

[Lee]

It’s actually , when you get into it, suprising how old most of the technology is

i mean ladder dacs go back to the 80s, with MSB technology proclaiming
the ring dac dates to late 90s, not exactly new, and is it relevant with modern FPGA

it’s interesting how much Lee is pushing the Apex dac tech with its release UPCOMING !

nice segue, but its like a ‘the Birds” film of audio equipment , there is so much equipment peddling, like a crow pecking a cows eyes; I am beginning to think the “ natural sound movement” has struck a chord ( pun unfortunate but also kind of funny) that not all is not rosy in the “technically advanced camp” that Lee is pushing and lecturing us on high from his mighty TAS pulpit ( ps they don’t do measurements ….could that be none of them could actually interpret them, or might expose their first Tier components inadequacy ?…… conspiracy, conspiracies, a horse for my conspiracies)

I am not pushing anything, just sharing my excitement over the sound improvements from Apex. If you read my comments here and on the TAS Facebook page, I only shared comments from when I heard the Rossini Apex at hifibuys in Atlanta and later when I heard the Vivaldi Apex at the Quintessence room and the Avantgare room (horns!).

It is personally exciting to me as as I bought a non-Apex Rossini in late November so the upgrade is pretty exciting to me since I bought near end of life. It was a substantial investment so that certainly weighs in.

Plus, it sounds friggin awesome.

I don’t now about “mighty TAS pulpit”. I just run the business side of Nextscreen. The real influencers are our writers.

HP started our magazine (as did Gordon Holt his magazine) because he noticed that measurements didn’t describe everything in a listening experience. That’s still true. Maybe you should join Amir’s forum. Those Topping DACs are really something.

 

[Lee]

Compared to what?
Wilson Sabrina and the lower Audio Research amps?

Ouch.

 

[PeterA]

Lee mentioned about dynamics of the Wilson’s

i thought this video which is same model as PeterA might be of interest

Hello awsmone, I think that model is actually a later version with cabinets built in Japan from the 70s. Mine are a very early version from about 1960, designed and built in England. They sound different and David would know more details. Yes, they do sound quite dynamic, though the music is not familiar. Thanks for posting.

 

[awsmone]

I am not pushing anything, just sharing my excitement over the sound improvements from Apex. If you read my comments here and on the TAS Facebook page, I only shared comments from when I heard the Rossini Apex at hifibuys in Atlanta and later when I heard the Vivaldi Apex at the Quintessence room and the Avantgare room (horns!).

It is personally exciting to me as as I bought a non-Apex Rossini in late November so the upgrade is pretty exciting to me since I bought near end of life. It was a substantial investment so that certainly weighs in.

Plus, it sounds friggin awesome.

I don’t now about “mighty TAS pulpit”. I just run the business side of Nextscreen. The real influencers are our writers.

HP started our magazine (as did Gordon Holt his magazine) because he noticed that measurements didn’t describe everything in a listening experience. That’s still true. Maybe you should join Amir’s forum. Those Topping DACs are really something.

Clearly you don’t know much about measurements, and I never said they tell you everything about the sound of a system, and aren’t you showing some conceit with your Topping comment , and I am no fan of DCS sound

let’s see what measurements can tell you

1. If a product is defective
2. If they meet the manufacturers specifications such as power output and sensitivity
3. Odd impedances in speakers requiring attention to amplifier choice
4. Quality control, such as speaker matching
5. Jitter and noise, showing poor design
6. Input and output impedance for relationship between devices
7.frequency aberrations of significance

none of this features in TAS but does in Stereophile

 

[treitz3]

Hello and good evening to you gentlemen. The admin team here at the WBF have a goal -

Our goal is to have a friendly place where everyone shares information without the level of bickering and angst that other forums tend to create.

Please (everyone) be a little bit more cordial and do not make things so personal. Just discuss the topic at hand...Please?

Tom

 

[howiebrou]

Hello and good evening to you gentlemen. The admin team here at the WBF have a goal -

Our goal is to have a friendly place where everyone shares information without the level of bickering and angst that other forums tend to create.

Please (everyone) be a little bit more cordial and do not make things so personal. Just discuss the topic at hand...Please?

Tom

100% agree but I forgot what the topic is. Can someone remind me?

 

[bonzo75]

100% agree but I forgot what the topic is. Can someone remind me?

Bickering

 

[bonzo75]

Also guys if you bicker, can one of you please put on Jay's voice and the other Mickey OCD's?

Axpona 22’ pictures

Ceasar, did you catch your wife with a audio reviewer at a Christmas party ?;) She said the reviewer's system was more dynamic. More efficient

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[treitz3]

You guys are killing me...just let it be. Let it go....put a song to it (whether it be funny or serious)

My word man....78 pages of this?

Tom

 

[treitz3]

Tom

 

[bonzo75]

View attachment 92593

Tom

At least use the great horned owl

 

[nirodha]

Snooze. This thread was semi-interesting, but after devolving into Cricket it has reached the bottom.

I love cricket. Soccer is the bottom

 

[tima]

Our goal is to have a friendly place where everyone shares information without the level of bickering and angst that other forums tend to create.

But but but we are not like other forums - our angst is sublime and our bickering unparalleled.

 

[andromedaaudio]

You guys are killing me...just let it be. Let it go....put a song to it (whether it be funny or serious)

My word man....78 pages of this?

Tom

Like i suggested before why not split the forum .
You can choose at log in for either : horn associated forum and forum for other transducer types.
This to prevent that any random topic turns into a horn centered thread

 

[spiritofmusic]

Andro, yep, let's have some safe spaces for horns, and some for cones. What on Earth could go wrong with that?

 

[MarcelNL]

Why, it's not as if the underlying reason for being here is any different for a horn-ist versus a cone-ist; listening to music. Or did I wander in the desert of audioland for too long to come full circle now, effectively having returned to the 'apparatchicks' (gear lovers focussing on shiny face plates and plentiful knops and switches). A horn is just another mean to the same end, or do we go separatist all the way and carve out a newly recognized land for magnetostats, electrostats etc?
Or is it just too early and did I miss the sarcasm?