Stromtank........

[Ron Resnick]

each audiophile mains system and audio system is particular enough to kill any hope of generalization. Experimentation and basic electrical common sense are the only rules.

+1

From personal experimentation I know that the PS Audio regenerator sounds different than an Equi-Tech isolation transformer. I suspect a Stromtank sounds different than a PS Audio regenerator or an Equi-Tech.

So all of these devices make our systems sound different. The question is: is different subjectively better?

In my new system I decided not to go down this road at all, and I'm not using any of these devices.

 

[microstrip]

+1

From personal experimentation I know that the PS Audio regenerator sounds different than an Equi-Tech isolation transformer. I suspect a Stromtank sounds different than a PS Audio regenerator or an Equi-Tech.

So all of these devices make our systems sound different. The question is: is different subjectively better?

In my new system I decided not to go down this road at all, and I'm not using any of these devices.

But you should check your mains, at less for voltage and line regulation (mains impedance). You can do it yourself, no technician needed!

 

[bryans]

So all of these devices make our systems sound different. The question is: is different subjectively better?

Very true statement.

 

[bryans]

nice post! Agree that people who haven’t tried battery on their front end components are fools.

as per post above, it may not work in all situations but worth a try!!!

also for what it’s worth:

Goal Zero Yeti 400 Lithium Portable Power Station Battery power comparo with Goal Zero Yeti 400, PS Audio DirectStream Power Plant 20 (P20) and Stromtank S2500. Review By Tom Lyle

Goal Zero Yeti 400 Lithium Portable Power Station Battery power comparo with Goal Zero Yeti 400, PS Audio DirectStream Power Plant 20 (P20) and Stromtank S2500. Review By Tom Lyle of Enjoy the Music.com

www.enjoythemusic.com

a guy compared a goal zero unit , costing a few hundred bucks, to stromtank. Conclusion: he couldn’t tell any difference ( but not a direct comparison, but still…if it were significant….)

I must admit, I'm curious on what changes a Goal Zero unit will make. One can get one to try for 30 days.

 

[Ron Resnick]

line regulation

The Torus voltage line regulation devices ("Torus AVR") output 120VAC +/- 5V for input voltage between 90V and 130V.

But it seems to me that fluctuation between 115V and 125V is still a pretty big range for, say, a reel-to-reel tape machine.

What appropriate product do you know of that maintains much tighter voltage regulation?

 

[microstrip]

The Torus voltage line regulation devices ("Torus AVR") output 120VAC +/- 5V for input voltage between 90V and 130V.

But it seems to me that fluctuation between 115V and 125V is still a pretty big range for, say, a reel-to-reel tape machine.

What appropriate product do you know of that maintains much tighter voltage regulation?

As far as I remember Torus keeps voltage switching between taps of the transformer - I think the +/-5V is the extreme case, very improbable. It is why my advise to diagnose our mains.

Your A820 is super regulated mainly DC operated machine - it should be insensitive to mains variations, something that does not happen with the A80 or many other old top reel machines that benefit for a non distorted mains, as the motors are AC operated.

 

[Hessec]

I have tested the output voltage of my torus 5 times. Every single reading has been 121v. I believe a 5v difference will shut the unit down. Mine are whole room units. I cannot comment on the "conditioners" as I have no experience with them.

 

[Audiohertz2]

In my point of view, Stromtank is a over-price product, you get a better music density, more details but with the trade-off cost of power swing, dynamic constrast and lively performance. The sound become softer, more calm down and relaxed, but loss the feeling of exciting let you gone with the music.
Some kind of problem related with the build quality, with a high price tag it should be better
+ The internal cable inside Stromtank is not an audiophile grade just like a popular electric cable
+ The grounding bus bar inside is too small and not good enough for a good earth ground path
+ The chassis is not thick and solid enough

Even I tested the 2500 quantum for only my MSB Digital Powerbase, it got the same result.
One of my friend who have an extreme power soultion with Stromtank but still have a slightly dynamic trade-off
+ S1000 for the CD source
+ S2500 quantum for preamp
+ 2 x S5000 HP for each poweramp (left & right)
+ Earth grounding enhancement for each unit
Please try it with home demo and listen it in your system before you decide to buy.

This has been my experience with every power condition i have tried , they really help if you have bad wall supply from local power company or poor internal wiring etc if not , kills dynamics for sure just as you describe ..!


Regards

 

[matthias]

In my new system I decided not to go down this road at all, and I'm not using any of these devices.

+1
I have one 16mm2 line terminating into a distribution box in my listening room. From there go hardwired 4mm2 lines to all devices. The connection at the backside of the devices is Neutrik Powercon 32A.

With this arrangement I never had the desire to use any power conditioning at all.

Matt

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have still seen ground loop issues through a Stromtank unless you unplug it from the wall.

Hi Rex,

Did you see this in an application where the amplifier was not plugged into the Stromtank? Or was every component plugged into the Stromtank?

 

[Kingrex]

Where I live there are a lot of power outages primarily in the summer time. So protecting sensitive equipment like an costly music server from improper shut-down makes a product like Stromtank a worthwhile investment.

You could also use a Torus AVR that auto adjusts the output voltage to maintain a stable 120 volts. If voltage gets out of range, it will shut the power down until you tell it to turn on. You could also use a UPS and Equitech. You could also use a PS Audio regnerator. Or a Pure Power. Or maybe that Monster Power station.
I believe you are correct in that the grid is an unstable source of power in some locations. But there are options. Any server should be able to handle a drop out. A continuous sag or swell is another issue.

Hi Rex,

Did you see this in an application where the amplifier was not plugged into the Stromtank? Or was every component plugged into the Stromtank?

Amp to the wall. 240 volt Boulder. Everything else the Stromtank.

I had him put the Stromtank on Ebtech HumX and that broke the loop. Were still trying to figure out why. I think the amp is leaking voltage to ground. Not fully sure. We have done many forms of isolation and elimination.

 

[PhP]

Please take a look inside, they should have a better audiophile build quality with their price tag.

View attachment 112082View attachment 112091View attachment 112092View attachment 112093View attachment 112094

STROMTANK is a power system, no signal inside. I find the manufacturing quite correct (look at most audiophile amplifier and you will be amazed that they are not better but they transport signals) and there is no really issue with audiophile power cord inside. Power cords are protecting from EMI/RFI and reject unwanted frequencies in 110/230V. They also act to protect from antennae effect. In a steel box (shielded) audiophile cables inside are absolutely unnecessary. Of course we all want better components better plugs etc at this price tag. When you discuss with real engineer in electronics that design state of the art electronics, they all said that power conditioners are not the good way, only AC design that really build a perfect sine wave is mandatory. All other systems have goods and drawbacks. STROMTANK and in a less extreme design PS AUDIO provide this. I used unfiltered audio systems for 30 years and each time power conditioners damaged my music but also in my customer systems. If you use STROMTANK you have to choice the right power to prevent compression, easy to find with the electronic manufacturer. Remember there is a difference between mean continuous power and power necessary for huge fff and transients. In well design amplifier this additional energy come from the amplifier power supply, not from the mains. And yes, I use extensive grounding system.

 

[Amir]

It's a comparison between MSB Digital PowerBase > QB8 > Main Wall Duplex Socket vs MSB Digital PowerBase > Stromtank > Main Wall Duplex Socket.
I've already take a long time to looking for a power condition solution, I had a lot of expectation how Stromtank will improve my overall system before I tried it but it's not work in my case.
Currently I'm going to go with Telos Monster Power Station after having experienced their Grounding Monster.


Yes you're right, for a AC-DC-AC solution the inverter is very important thing. But for the audio, AC current is not enough esspecially for hiend audio, you need to play with some enhancement solution for a better signal ground, chassis ground, earth ground.
For the build quality at their price tag, please compare it with the build quality from Taiko Audio and let see how the Taiko Battery Power Supply will be.

This Telos is around 100k?

 

[Kingrex]

This Telos is around 100k?

View attachment 140327

Parallel filter? Trying to bleed off some sort of noise?

 

[Kingrex]

Having looked into the stromtank S5000 reciently, I see its a 750 VA inverter. I'm not sure if its a high frequency inverter or a hybrid. If the 2 aluminum boxes in the link are toroids then its hybrid. If they are Fet then its high frequency. High frequency inverters start out with a more pure sine wave. But can't handle heavy loads well. Low frequency inverters are not very clean. Usually around 10% distortion. But robust power sources. They can run amps, pumps and motors. But they have a dirty sine wave. Jaged with steps. Think 60 cycles with smoothing caps to clean it. But easy to see each step on a scope.

The battery in Stromtank S5000 says 100AH. But this means little if you don't know the operating voltage. I have never seen a small 750 VA inverter use larger than 12 volts. So its probably a 1200 WH battery. Not that large.

When a inverter distorts, the sine wave flat tops and the edges get very ragged. As the top flattens, a amp will try and draw more current to meet power demands. This creates heat in the amp. The reason some amps have cooked using a small inverter to power them.

All inverters have a sound. Eco Flow, Goal Zero Bluettia and Stromtank. Even the type battery attached influences the sound. I have no idea why as its just a storage medium. I would think the inverter switching noise, stability of sine wave, filters and internal wiring would influence the sound most. But batteries are supposed to also. LiFePO4 are supposed to sound the best. They are also one of the safest outside led acid.

All these portable or UPSable battery back up systems come with high frequency inverters that are much larger than Stromtanks. Usually about 3600 watt or 30A. Plenty of power to run a amp. They are many times 24 volt batteries so each 100AH battery is potentially twice the storage of a Stromtank. They also stack batteries so you can have close to infinite play time.

The best inverters appear to be Hybrid. They switch at 20,000 cycles to make the AC, smooth the steps with filters, then use a large toroid transformer to step up the power. Very clean sine waves with less than 2% thd under load. Hybrids can handle the largest of largest amps as well as many pumps and motors. But for in room use, they are not attractive and have exposed wires connecting the battery and fused load circuits. They are also heavy. They are designed to power homes, commercial spaces, yachts and RV.

All inverters should be grounded properly. Many times this can be a 10 awg branch wire that is part of the charging circuit. But depending on the wattage of the system, it could be a #4 or larger wire.

Some people say adding ground rods in the yard help. I really don't know how much of this is expectation bias. And it really should be tied to the premises ground unless your 100% sure there is no connection to the utility ground through a ethernet, coax, charge circuit or component plugged into the wall.

Many anecdotal reports say inverters benefit from a filter on the load. Even though they already have built in filters. This is subject to user preference.

I'm sure an industrious audiophile could get into a inverter and change out some filter caps and wires to improve performance. I have talked to people who have done this.

Many inverters will have a cleaner sine wave than what you get from the road. But they may distort to 5% to 8% under proper loading. They could completely collapse under a heavy load. You have to be conscious the load. You don't just go guessing. Its not like a wire in the wall. You can overload a circuit in the wall. But its much less likely you will damage an amp. You can. But its much harder. If you tax a inverter of any manufacturer you will damage equipment.

All inverters when powering a system that is 100% isolated from the grid are virtually totally lightning protected. They are 100% protected from brown/black outs, polluted utility power and a significant amount of RF. I assume RF could couple to the battery, battery cables, inverter, load wires, power cables to equipment and the audio equipment itself. Nothing is totally immune to RF unless you enclosed the listening room in a faraday cage. And even then your inverter, wires and audio equipment are creating their own RF.

A Stromtank or any other battey/inverter system has a sound. Whether it is better than the sound from the utility or from the utility with a filter cleaning some of the noise is up to user preference and the equipment attached to it.

 

[Amir]

Living Voice use Hybrid inverters of Victron Energy 3000 .

Victron Energy

Victron Energy - the professional choice for independent electric power

www.victronenergy.com

The output transformer of hybrids affects on bass.

I think I do not know which battery is best for sound but I doubt if Lifepo4 be best.

 

[Amir]

Parallel filter? Trying to bleed off some sort of noise?

I do not know how it works

 

[Cincy2]

Where I live there are a lot of power outages primarily in the summer time. So protecting sensitive equipment like an costly music server from improper shut-down makes a product like Stromtank a worthwhile investment.

I agree with you and have the same problem. I put a StromTank S2500 in my system for my Server, DAC and Preamp. I can't say it improved the sound significantly but the protection it affords to sensitive electronics is much appreciated.

Cincy

 

[mtemur]

A Stromtank or any other battey/inverter system has a sound. Whether it is better than the sound from the utility or from the utility with a filter cleaning some of the noise is up to user preference and the equipment attached to it.

I agree that Stromtank has a sound signature, and it’s not good. I know this because I tested it and experienced that Stromtank imposes a plastic character on the sound. The proper way to test it is by comparing all plugs connected to wall outlets versus all plugs connected to the Stromtank. However, everyone, including Stromtank representatives, tends to test it by simply switching the Stromtank on and off while keeping the plugs connected to it.

Just like Stromtank every serial filter is diminishing dynamics and imposing it’s own character. Parallel filters don’t do much on filtering but also don’t kill dynamics or add their character.

 

[Kingrex]

I agree with you and have the same problem. I put a StromTank S2500 in my system for my Server, DAC and Preamp. I can't say it improved the sound significantly but the protection it affords to sensitive electronics is much appreciated.

Cincy

That is the #1 reason to use battery power of any type.