Sublime Sound

[the sound of Tao]

I worked in sound and vision recording areas in film and television production for nearly twenty years before moving across to landscape design so I’m probably likely to avoid listening rooms that look like recording studios... it’s an aesthetic that works practically but also can be kind of a bit alien and disconnected for me... possibly more that it just reminds me of work a bit.

It’s just personal preference but the more a listening space looks like a normal living environment is just better integration for me. It creates a social container that is just a bit less surreal or extreme. There is more to perception than just sound. I kinda understand the anti-wall tampon movement. It reflects perhaps a more integrated approach to living. The sonic value of room treatment I get but it does come at a cost and if the room is fairly OK to start with then that is perhaps a more ideal outcome.

 

[Al M.]

I worked in sound and vision recording areas in film and television production for nearly twenty years before moving across to landscape design so I’m probably a bit likely to avoid listening rooms that look like recording studios... it’s an aesthetic that works for some but also kind of a bit alien and disconnected for me... reminds me of work a bit.

It’s just personal preference but the more a listening space looks like a normal living environment is just better integration for me. It creates a social container that is just a bit less surreal or extreme. There is more to perception than just sound. I kinda understand the anti-wall tampon movement. It reflects perhaps a more integrated approach to living. The sonic value of room treatment I get but it comes at a cost and so if the room is OK to start with then that is a good outcome.

Sure, if your room is OK to start with.

But you don't know how OK your room is until you actually probe it. With all the knowledge of my room and of the good sound that I finally was able to achieve after all those years also through acoustic treatment, I know I would run out of it screaming if all the acoustic treatment was removed. It really would be that bad. It would actually hurt my ears. And it would sound unnatural, too.

All this doesn't take away David Karmeli's advice about managing the energy in the room. You really can negatively affect that with misplaced and overdone room treatment.

 

[the sound of Tao]

That is it Al, possibly also why I am drawn to speakers like horns that tend to take the room out a bit. It is definitely a struggle to balance both acoustic needs and design integration into living spaces. The drive to get great sound is a full on commitment for sure.

 

[Al M.]

The drive to get great sound is a full on commitment for sure.

Yes, it's clearly not just dropping a bunch of great gear in a room and be done with it.

Or even have an acoustically designed room and hope for the best, no questions asked and no experiments undertaken.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Yes, it's clearly not just dropping a bunch of great gear in a room and be done with it.

Lol... most definitely, money buys you a great head start... but then the great work begins.

 

[Al M.]

Lol... most definitely, money buys you a great head start... but then the great work begins.

Or as the Beatles would say, (Money) "Can't Buy Me Love".

 

[the sound of Tao]

The love is in achieving yourself... this is surely a pitched battle against our own circumstances... and it takes us all time to learn about both music and audio... there seems a lot of ego in this game that comes more from opinions rather than any evidence. Moderation is at times in very short supply.

 

[PeterA]

The love is in achieving yourself... this is surely a pitched battle against our own circumstances... and it takes us all time to learn about both music and audio... there seems a lot of ego in this game that comes more from opinions rather than any evidence. Moderation is at times in very short supply.

I would like to see more virtual system threads with videos on a forum such as this to learn what others are doing and how they got there. MikeL has one of the first serious system threads and it has been fun to follow over the years. Tango has another really good one. I go there for music recommendations and to watch the videos of a great horn-based system.

Such threads can be a good complement to all of the gear centered discussions.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Open sharing is invaluable, it’s important to see how we are all just works in progress.

I’ve enjoyed the long term system threads here especially and even if there’s no direct takeaway it’s good just to see how others have developed in their understanding along the way and then grown as individuals.

If it’s a deeper cultural thing where music and gear are all a part and parcel that’s even better still. Growth happens in both, surely none of us are unchanged by all this energy and activity.

 

[bonzo75]

I would like to see more virtual system threads with videos on a forum such as this to learn what others are doing and how they got there.

You had me at videos...

 

[PeterA]

You had me at videos...

Bonzo, what percentage of hosts for your audio tour visits do not allow you to make videos of their systems? My experience is that there is a fair amount of resistance to posting system videos. I actually now regret not making some of earlier system set ups in my room. A before and after video of Jim Smith’s room play session would be fascinating to watch now.

 

[bonzo75]

Bonzo, what percentage of hosts for your audio tour visits do not allow you to make videos of their systems? My experience is that there is a fair amount of resistance to posting system videos. I actually now regret not making some of earlier system set ups in my room. A before and after video of Jim Smith’s room play session would be fascinating to watch now.

Hi Peter, I started taking videos only after May 2019 (after Munich) when I realized the value. So given lock down started in 2020 Feb, I haven't covered that many.

I think if they are not comfortable to take it on their phone and play it back to them. That usually convinces them.

But there are quite a few who whatsapp me. Just in case you are reading this, whoever you are, I am open to your videos and won't post them if you don't want me to, please send them to me. Thanks

 

[bonzo75]

This has now added two more traps, so it's gone up from 6 to 10 to 12

 

[PeterA]

I just remembered that I think I always had my MartinLogan speakers pointed straight ahead (no toe-in).

View attachment 70611

Ron, it would be interesting for you to set up this old system before installing the new one after this room has been renovated to see if it sounds different now from what you remember. You will then know clearly the improvement of the new system.

It’s hard to tell from the photograph where your listening seat is, but it seems pretty far back so you are probably not that far off axis from these panels. The speakers also look as though they are pretty close together which of course put you more on axis with the panel. The local Martin Logan system I know pretty well around here uses toe in and I think set up with the listening seat is more or less an equilateral triangle but I have not measured.

Do owners of dipole speakers usually place absorption in the front corners of the rooms? I would think part of the appeal of such speaker designs is to work with the reflected back wave to create a greater sense of space and absorption or open spaces behind the speakers would seem to work against that idea. I am curious as I have never owned dipole speakers.

 

[morricab]

This has now added two more traps, so it's gone up from 6 to 10 to 12

This room looks very narrow to put in a wide dispersion speaker like the WB...still sounds pretty good but I wonder...

 

[Al M.]

This room looks very narrow to put in a wide dispersion speaker like the WB...still sounds pretty good but I wonder...

Me too. Large speaker in small room. Oh well.

 

[Tango]

I go there for music recommendations and to watch the videos of a great horn-based system.

Such threads can be a good complement to all of the gear centered discussions.

Many videos I posted, I changed variables and tried things. I recorded to cross check my a/b but I just didn't say or describe because my intention was to introduce music. I have been recording my system since before ddk visited. It is a good tool to recall and confirm hearing.

 

[heihei]

This has now added two more traps, so it's gone up from 6 to 10 to 12

Jeez - imagine spending all that money and cramming it into that narrow space. If ever a system was overkill for a room, this must be it. Based on my experience of WB Resolutions, their speakers do not like to be near side walls.
Stern & Heisenbergs are what I would call a saturated sound - again something that could become too much in a small room. I suspect both these issues are why the treatment is being added.
I can't help feeling that in this room, smaller WB speakers with the addition of a pair of Torus subs with DSP filtering would produce a better overall sound.
I'd love to hear this in a bigger room with a Lampi replacing the CH front end. When I compared them, I found the CH uninvolving emotionally.

Edit - just realised I've posted a wordier version of morricab's post!

 

[Lagonda]

You had me at videos...

Tima said it so well Ked, when he compared your phone to our listening rooms

 

[PeterA]

Me too. Large speaker in small room. Oh well.

Small speakers in large rooms often sound better than large speakers in small rooms. I think it all depends on speaker choice and implementation/set up.

The wide dispersion speakers in a narrow room is an interesting comment. I’ve heard speakers on the long wall set up sound better.