Sublime Sound
- Thread starter PeterA
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I am in agreement with both Peter and Floyd. I think the CC's are musically right and pretty much unbeatable, except for components that really need to move current such as high powered amps. The CC's are on all my gear except for the Soulutions which use some custom Furutech DPS 4.1's. . It's a very good combination that maximize the benefits of each PC.
As the third listener I broadly agree with Peter and Ian. On the jazz piece there was just more energy with the CC, and it was significantly more.
As Ian pointed out, this was a quick comparison and hardly a real shootout. Yet still, with all the caveats, another instance where Shunyata has failed to impress me.
AWG numbers alone apparently don't tell the whole story.
Al and I visited Ian when he had all the new Shunyata power cords. I reported on that visit in one of the threads. They were the NR noise reduction technology chords. I don’t think we listened to these cords without the noise reduction.
Removing them from the system and listening to the cc chords was a big improvement. Even on the front end components that don’t need the current. I don’t think Ian had enough Ching Cheng chords For everything so some of them were stock chords, but in both cases they sounded better than the Shunyata to me. They can share their thoughts and correct the details if I am mistaken.
I agree with Al, I have not yet been impressed by Shunyata power cords. And they have all this technology and research and development behind them. The cheap NOS Chinese power cords sounded better in the two direct comparisons I have made.
Again, I feel compelled out of fairness to Shunyata that you're basing your negative impressions of a company on their entry level products. Their NR power cords on my power hungry amps did not work well and that is not entirely surprising. I think the NR power cords did work well on the DAC (there certainly wasn't anything wrong) but we hardly gave it much of a chance and for the purposes of you getting to hear my CH L1 preamp without other variables we just removed it.
The 10AWG cables we tried in your system were the cheapest cables Shunyata makes and to be fair it did improve the bass in my system (and perhaps arguably in yours). I wouldn't want to judge Magico speakers based on their A1s (that's just an example, I haven't heard them). When a company makes products that cost thousands of dollars and you choose to try their entry level product that costs $250 I'm not sure it's fair to judge their technology and research and development based on that.
The 10AWG cables we tried in your system were the cheapest cables Shunyata makes and to be fair it did improve the bass in my system (and perhaps arguably in yours). I wouldn't want to judge Magico speakers based on their A1s (that's just an example, I haven't heard them). When a company makes products that cost thousands of dollars and you choose to try their entry level product that costs $250 I'm not sure it's fair to judge their technology and research and development based on that.
IMO the best thing about Shunyata is they're really nice guys. If you like the product, cool.
Fair enough. But shouldn't even their entry level products not sound worse than a stock cord?
People should understand that such particular experience does not allow anyone to say if a cable is "worse" or "better" than another one. At this level we are usually just advising if the cable is adequate or not for a particular system.
I have large experience with Shunyata power cables and power devices. In the proper system they are really excellent (in my experience for example in an Audio Research system) , but we can't expect dropping them in any system and miraculously getting an improvement. And yes, sometimes stock cables are hard to beat.
Again IMHO, in order to try power cables we must power all the system with these particular cables, otherwise we risk some particular nasty interactions between them. It is why I have tried full sets of Shunyata, Ching Chengs, Transparent Reference XL, Belden or Quantum (Nordost) power cables. And yes, listener preference matters a lot in these aspects.
I run 4 of them with my MBL 9011 amps, sounds great. I would call them high powered, but maybe it’s just my delusion of grandeur flaring up again
My own stock cords are also lame then, I guess. I thought it was all TrippLite but apparently I have other ones too, don't know which ones. Not that I care in the least.
Tang, I tried that running the JPS labs in wall cabling right to my amplifiers without power cords but the Furutech IEC connectors are colored and I got rid of them and I’m now using outlets with cheap Chinese power cords and it sounds better. Go figure.
Sure, but when a $25 cheap Chinese power cord beats a highly developed and researched power cord costing 10 times as much one has to pay attention. And remember, these venom HDV2 power cords are highly recommended by others.
I’m just saying that after 20 minutes of hearing them in my system, exhibited the same colorations that I hear from much more expensive and fancy audiophile power cords, I choose not to have that sound in my system.
You can prefer whatever you want. I happen to disagree with you about the bass quality. It was more extended and tighter with your cords, but I did not think it sounded more realistic. It was too emphasized and not natural in my opinion.
We all make different choices.
The CC are good to probably about 15a, that's up to possibly 900wpc rms. Few amplifiers can exceed the CC ability to deliver. Bigger awg is mostly opinion based.
Aah, but then you have Shunyata's argument regarding DTCD (dynamic transient current delivery):
https://shunyata.com/technology-guide/
The only way that I know that one cord can make bass more extended and tighter than another cord is by delivering more power to the amplifier more quickly. This is in contrast to signal interconnects which can act as filters on the audio signal itself. Let me know if you think I’m wrong about this.
Delivering AC power in an unimpeded manner would seem to be one of the basic tenets of power cords generally, and doing so is Shunyata’s stated goal. Your observation suggests that they are in fact succeeding in doing this better than your preferred CC.
I understand that you don’t like the resulting sound in your system, and that you personally prefer an alternative which leads to what you regard as a more natural bass. De gustibus, etc.
But your preference does not really support a conclusion that CC “beats” what, from a power delivery perspective, would appear to be a better engineered alternative. (“ a $25 cheap Chinese power cord beats a highly developed and researched power cord costing 10 times as much…”).
I think it may be more accurate to say that in your system you prefer a tweak which apparently limits the energy available to the amp because the resulting bass seems less hi-fi to you.
But as you well know, others, with other systems and preferences, appreciate Shunyata’s power delivery characteristics relative to stock cords.
There's no evidence of power delivery issues you made it up on your own. This is an easy thing to measure with actual electronics, a chart of say 50 amplifiers showing a deficiency of same gauge UL certified industrial cords vs audiophile variety will settle that, until then it's conjecture.
david
I've been reading Peter's and Al's comments lately here and elsewhere and am perplexed and disappointed at the stuff being written, so I take them with tons of salt; so much so, that their thoughts on this subject mean nothing to me. Here's what I have seen so far:
1) Peter is using 14awg cords on his amps; I believe this is contrary to our private emails which state he wants at least 10awg in the walls, if I recall correctly. Peter, correct me if I am wrong here. Are your in-wall wires also 14awg or thicker?
2) Al says "this was a quick comparison and hardly a real shootout", and Ian "It was also a VERY quick comparison and hardly representative of a Ching Cheng vs Shunyata shootout" - thus, not a worthy comparison then, to even be talking about; just another hasty set of conclusions, and I have seen a lot of evidence of that lately
3) In private, Al emails us about his own "Shunyata Revelation" on his DAC, albeit with a much more expensive NR-type cord. Nonetheless, I am stunned at the lack of balanced and accurate opinion writing, leaving out many many other details that I just don't care to write about right now
4) As micro wrote, and as I have written to all internally (and as I you also believe I think), cords and power management in general have to be addressed holistically. A cord here and a cord there won't do anything meaningful
5) Peter has tried a number of cords, and says they all exhibited similar behavior in his system. Nowhere in his writings does his - even once - suggest that these experiments may be actually exposing issues in his system and investigate further. Nonetheless, I understand he likes what he likes, though to me, he does not approach this subject in a careful and pragmatic way
6) Peter has proven to me beyond a reasonable doubt that he likes some electronic noise seeeping into his system, which can cover up some issues. By contrast, he refers to the resulting sound as "natural". As we both heard while at his place last time - with the CC cords in place, room treatments removed, Burly wire, plus new phono (but not preamp) - there was nothing natural about the sound, though there were some good moments. Personally, I was mostly cringing and grinding my teeth
So as I said above: lots of salt... but I accept the fact that he likes what he likes.
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